Author Topic: Stop the clock  (Read 2780 times)

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Offline Timer

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Re: Stop the clock
« Reply #25 on: December 22, 2020, 05:35:15 PM »
Donít be so technical.  If the player gets out of bounds, give it to him. 

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Stop the clock
« Reply #26 on: December 22, 2020, 06:09:56 PM »
Donít be so technical.  If the player gets out of bounds, give it to him.

When it's obvious, I trust "my" view & judgment.  When it's close, I trust the "covering official" to guide my response.  I don't have the authority, or inclination, to decide to "give" or "take away" anything from either team.

Offline Etref

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Re: Stop the clock
« Reply #27 on: December 22, 2020, 07:35:53 PM »
Donít be so technical.  If the player gets out of bounds, give it to him. 

If he just barely OOB before going in the end zone, do you give it to him!
" I don't make the rules coach!"

Online CalhounLJ

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Re: Stop the clock
« Reply #28 on: December 22, 2020, 07:46:57 PM »
If he just barely OOB before going in the end zone, do you give it to him!
Yes? If heís oob heís oob. Iíll give him the oob spot. Every time.


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Online bama_stripes

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Re: Stop the clock
« Reply #29 on: December 23, 2020, 07:47:25 AM »
Late to the party, but in no way, shape or form do I see any forward progress on this play.  Think of it this way:  If the same play happened in the middle of the field, where would you spot the ball?

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Stop the clock
« Reply #30 on: December 23, 2020, 01:12:19 PM »
Late to the party, but in no way, shape or form do I see any forward progress on this play.  Think of it this way:  If the same play happened in the middle of the field, where would you spot the ball?

Not intending to burst an bubbles, but...the view from 10-15 feet in real time, and video are different.  the covering official was observing from an appropriate position and concluded the play, and forward progress ended in-bounds.  As we ALL (Officials, Players, Coaches) should know and accept, his judgment is the ONLY one that matters (subject to possible instant peer review).  All the kings horses and all the kings men are NOT going to change the decision at this late date.

Opinions are like butt-holes, everyone has one and it's different than anyone else's. Coulda, woulda, shoulda speculation is reserved for spectators (who paid for admission).

Online CalhounLJ

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Re: Stop the clock
« Reply #31 on: December 23, 2020, 05:11:21 PM »
Not intending to burst an bubbles, but...the view from 10-15 feet in real time, and video are different.  the covering official was observing from an appropriate position and concluded the play, and forward progress ended in-bounds.  As we ALL (Officials, Players, Coaches) should know and accept, his judgment is the ONLY one that matters (subject to possible instant peer review).  All the kings horses and all the kings men are NOT going to change the decision at this late date.

Opinions are like butt-holes, everyone has one and it's different than anyone else's. Coulda, woulda, shoulda speculation is reserved for spectators (who paid for admission).
Question just for my information: are you in favor of instant replay? Specifically the opportunity to overturn or reverse erroneous calls by officials? When there is definite video evidence?


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Online Legacy Zebra

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Re: Stop the clock
« Reply #32 on: December 23, 2020, 07:08:42 PM »
Not intending to burst an bubbles, but...the view from 10-15 feet in real time, and video are different.  the covering official was observing from an appropriate position and concluded the play, and forward progress ended in-bounds.  As we ALL (Officials, Players, Coaches) should know and accept, his judgment is the ONLY one that matters (subject to possible instant peer review).  All the kings horses and all the kings men are NOT going to change the decision at this late date.

Opinions are like butt-holes, everyone has one and it's different than anyone else's. Coulda, woulda, shoulda speculation is reserved for spectators (who paid for admission).

1. Nobody is trying to change the call now. We were discussing if it was correct or not and how other officials saw it. Thatís the entire point of message boards like this.

2. This isnít opinion-based. These are the facts. The ball carrier went out of bounds. He was still moving forward throughout the action so his progress was not stopped. This runner should have been ruled out of bounds and the clock should have been stopped. This official made an error in judgement.

The rest of us are using it as a teaching/learning tool. If you donít care to do the same, feel free to move along. But throwing up your hands and saying ďThatís what he ruled and nothing else matteredĒ is not productive to our development as officials.

Online CalhounLJ

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Re: Stop the clock
« Reply #33 on: December 23, 2020, 08:14:14 PM »
1. Nobody is trying to change the call now. We were discussing if it was correct or not and how other officials saw it. Thatís the entire point of message boards like this.

2. This isnít opinion-based. These are the facts. The ball carrier went out of bounds. He was still moving forward throughout the action so his progress was not stopped. This runner should have been ruled out of bounds and the clock should have been stopped. This official made an error in judgement.

The rest of us are using it as a teaching/learning tool. If you donít care to do the same, feel free to move along. But throwing up your hands and saying ďThatís what he ruled and nothing else matteredĒ is not productive to our development as officials.
Thank you. Iíve been searching for the right words. You said it all.


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Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: Stop the clock
« Reply #34 on: December 24, 2020, 07:26:13 AM »
1. Nobody is trying to change the call now. We were discussing if it was correct or not and how other officials saw it. Thatís the entire point of message boards like this.

2. This isnít opinion-based. These are the facts. The ball carrier went out of bounds. He was still moving forward throughout the action so his progress was not stopped. This runner should have been ruled out of bounds and the clock should have been stopped. This official made an error in judgement.

The rest of us are using it as a teaching/learning tool. If you donít care to do the same, feel free to move along. But throwing up your hands and saying ďThatís what he ruled and nothing else matteredĒ is not productive to our development as officials.

Well said.   :thumbup
It's easy to get the players, getting 'em to play together, that's the hard part. - Casey Stengel

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Stop the clock
« Reply #35 on: December 24, 2020, 10:35:13 AM »
1. Nobody is trying to change the call now. We were discussing if it was correct or not and how other officials saw it. Thatís the entire point of message boards like this.

2. This isnít opinion-based. These are the facts. The ball carrier went out of bounds. He was still moving forward throughout the action so his progress was not stopped. This runner should have been ruled out of bounds and the clock should have been stopped. This official made an error in judgement.

The rest of us are using it as a teaching/learning tool. If you donít care to do the same, feel free to move along. But throwing up your hands and saying ďThatís what he ruled and nothing else matteredĒ is not productive to our development as officials.

Really?  Your complaint seems to be one of "your view (from film) was better than the covering official's (real time/location) actually was, and that he, doesn't understand "Forward Progress" as well as you.  If there was a constructive suggestion about positioning, understanding, or explaining the rule the rule, signaling or some tangible beneficial correctible issue, I might agree there was a useful "teaching/learning tool" offered.

However, "your OPINION" is somehow better than his, alone, doesn't seem all that beneficially instructional. Since this was a "Championship Level" game it seems safe to assume that official earned his way on THAT field, and his coverage and positioning confirms his assignment.  Film can be a great instructional tool about a lot of facets of the game, however it doesn't yet offer offer much help in what is perceived to be actually seen, or what that UNIQUE perspective dictates the impartial, instant judgment to be.

Of course, today's technology can subsequently prove an instant, real time judgment incorrect and suggest appropriate adjustment to help avoid repetition, but I didn't see any such constructive, specific advice offered. An external, subsequent "opinion" may prove to be accurate, but without tangible advice or suggestion, it has little, if any, practical value.  Just another opinion, hopefully we all seriously strive to be the vey best, we can, but consistent, absolute perfection
is likely to remain beyond our grasp.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2020, 10:40:53 AM by AlUpstateNY »

Online CalhounLJ

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Re: Stop the clock
« Reply #36 on: December 24, 2020, 10:55:31 AM »
Really?  Your complaint seems to be one of "your view (from film) was better than the covering official's (real time/location) actually was, and that he, doesn't understand "Forward Progress" as well as you.  If there was a constructive suggestion about positioning, understanding, or explaining the rule the rule, signaling or some tangible beneficial correctible issue, I might agree there was a useful "teaching/learning tool" offered.

However, "your OPINION" is somehow better than his, alone, doesn't seem all that beneficially instructional. Since this was a "Championship Level" game it seems safe to assume that official earned his way on THAT field, and his coverage and positioning confirms his assignment.  Film can be a great instructional tool about a lot of facets of the game, however it doesn't yet offer offer much help in what is perceived to be actually seen, or what that UNIQUE perspective dictates the impartial, instant judgment to be.

Of course, today's technology can subsequently prove an instant, real time judgment incorrect and suggest appropriate adjustment to help avoid repetition, but I didn't see any such constructive, specific advice offered. An external, subsequent "opinion" may prove to be accurate, but without tangible advice or suggestion, it has little, if any, practical value.  Just another opinion, hopefully we all seriously strive to be the vey best, we can, but consistent, absolute perfection
is likely to remain beyond our grasp.
What are you trying to prove?  This is asinine.


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Offline dammitbobby

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Re: Stop the clock
« Reply #37 on: December 24, 2020, 11:36:52 AM »
Really?  Your complaint seems to be one of "your view (from film) was better than the covering official's (real time/location) actually was, and that he, doesn't understand "Forward Progress" as well as you.  If there was a constructive suggestion about positioning, understanding, or explaining the rule the rule, signaling or some tangible beneficial correctible issue, I might agree there was a useful "teaching/learning tool" offered.

However, "your OPINION" is somehow better than his, alone, doesn't seem all that beneficially instructional. Since this was a "Championship Level" game it seems safe to assume that official earned his way on THAT field, and his coverage and positioning confirms his assignment.  Film can be a great instructional tool about a lot of facets of the game, however it doesn't yet offer offer much help in what is perceived to be actually seen, or what that UNIQUE perspective dictates the impartial, instant judgment to be.

Of course, today's technology can subsequently prove an instant, real time judgment incorrect and suggest appropriate adjustment to help avoid repetition, but I didn't see any such constructive, specific advice offered. An external, subsequent "opinion" may prove to be accurate, but without tangible advice or suggestion, it has little, if any, practical value.  Just another opinion, hopefully we all seriously strive to be the vey best, we can, but consistent, absolute perfection
is likely to remain beyond our grasp.

No one is arguing the covering official's qualifications to be in that game.  Not one single person.

As far as constructive feedback about positioning, mechanics, etc., did you even read all the comments on the first page?  There was an excellent discussion that I certainly found helpful, regarding wind/not wind and cross field mechanics... which is entirely the point of conversations such as this.

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Stop the clock
« Reply #38 on: December 25, 2020, 12:46:17 PM »
No one is arguing the covering official's qualifications to be in that game.  Not one single person.

As far as constructive feedback about positioning, mechanics, etc., did you even read all the comments on the first page?  There was an excellent discussion that I certainly found helpful, regarding wind/not wind and cross field mechanics... which is entirely the point of conversations such as this.

Forgive me if I misunderstood the half dozen, or so, DIRECT accusations and/or snarky suggestions pointing at on-field error & official's misjudgment.  Questions, comments, discussions about constructive or instructional ideas relating to rule interpretations, coverage positioning are indeed helpful and worthwhile, but all the, "my view, my interpretation, my judgment is somehow superior" is pretty much worthless.

Online CalhounLJ

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Re: Stop the clock
« Reply #39 on: December 25, 2020, 01:00:36 PM »
When it's obvious, I trust "my" view & judgment.  When it's close, I trust the "covering official" to guide my response.  I don't have the authority, or inclination, to decide to "give" or "take away" anything from either team.
Lol. Youíre the one who said it.


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Offline dammitbobby

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Re: Stop the clock
« Reply #40 on: December 25, 2020, 01:37:46 PM »
Opining that the official made a mistake, isnít the same as saying he wasnít qualified to be there. Not sure why you conflate the two.

Online CalhounLJ

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Re: Stop the clock
« Reply #41 on: December 25, 2020, 02:16:51 PM »
I make a motion we lock this thread. Weíve done about all the damage we can do here.


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Offline TxSkyBolt

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Re: Stop the clock
« Reply #42 on: December 25, 2020, 05:03:00 PM »
If he just barely OOB before going in the end zone, do you give it to him!
Apples and oranges


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Offline TxSkyBolt

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Re: Stop the clock
« Reply #43 on: December 25, 2020, 05:07:52 PM »
Really?  Your complaint seems to be one of "your view (from film) was better than the covering official's (real time/location) actually was, and that he, doesn't understand "Forward Progress" as well as you.  If there was a constructive suggestion about positioning, understanding, or explaining the rule the rule, signaling or some tangible beneficial correctible issue, I might agree there was a useful "teaching/learning tool" offered.

However, "your OPINION" is somehow better than his, alone, doesn't seem all that beneficially instructional. Since this was a "Championship Level" game it seems safe to assume that official earned his way on THAT field, and his coverage and positioning confirms his assignment.  Film can be a great instructional tool about a lot of facets of the game, however it doesn't yet offer offer much help in what is perceived to be actually seen, or what that UNIQUE perspective dictates the impartial, instant judgment to be.

Of course, today's technology can subsequently prove an instant, real time judgment incorrect and suggest appropriate adjustment to help avoid repetition, but I didn't see any such constructive, specific advice offered. An external, subsequent "opinion" may prove to be accurate, but without tangible advice or suggestion, it has little, if any, practical value.  Just another opinion, hopefully we all seriously strive to be the vey best, we can, but consistent, absolute perfection
is likely to remain beyond our grasp.
Here's the take away and learning moment Al. In the waning minutes of a game if the ball carrier is trying to get out of bounds give it to him. Yes this may be different than how you'd call it in the middle of the game but that's the way to handle these situations.


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Offline TxSkyBolt

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Stop the clock
« Reply #44 on: December 25, 2020, 05:08:53 PM »
 
Forgive me if I misunderstood the half dozen, or so, DIRECT accusations and/or snarky suggestions pointing at on-field error & official's misjudgment.  Questions, comments, discussions about constructive or instructional ideas relating to rule interpretations, coverage positioning are indeed helpful and worthwhile, but all the, "my view, my interpretation, my judgment is somehow superior" is pretty much worthless.

 hEaDbAnG

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« Last Edit: December 25, 2020, 07:23:19 PM by TxSkyBolt »