Author Topic: You Make the Call  (Read 385 times)

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Offline bctgp

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You Make the Call
« on: March 30, 2021, 09:40:34 PM »
Offense or Defense Dead-ball Foul?

https://youtu.be/uV34EqwUmAQ

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: You Make the Call
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2021, 09:47:06 PM »
Offense or Defense Dead-ball Foul?

https://youtu.be/uV34EqwUmAQ

I havenít looked at the video yet, and Iím betting this is a question of whether B makes a movement that causes a false start, or A truly makes a false start. Iíll report back...

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: You Make the Call
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2021, 09:57:00 PM »
OK, just looked at it. No question, a Team B player within 1 yard of the NZ makes an quick, abrupt, and exaggerated movement that is not part of a normal defensive player movement. This is a DOG foul by Team B. This Ďmovementí has only one purpose, and that is to cause a false start. We simply must have the courage to make this call, and get this deliberate attempt to gain an illegal advantage out of the game. Letís just say what this is: cheating. And we need to do our part to stop it.

Offline bctgp

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Re: You Make the Call
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2021, 10:26:54 PM »
That's my view as well. It does appear the back at bottom of the screen reacts just before snap and some folks have indicated to me it is a FST since they are not protected, but I don't think 7-1-5 covers protected/unprotected Team A players I think that is related to movements into the NZ which we don't have here. I agree this should be a DOG on Team A, there's nothing football shift related on what Team B does.

Offline Covid 22

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Re: You Make the Call
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2021, 10:06:30 AM »
Unless there was a verbal signal similar to the snap signal called by the defense. I have FS on the right guard.

Online JasonTX

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Re: You Make the Call
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2021, 10:22:40 AM »
Unless there was a verbal signal similar to the snap signal called by the defense. I have FS on the right guard.

With the current rule the verbal signal doesn't have to be similar if it's disconcerting.

Offline bctgp

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Re: You Make the Call
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2021, 11:24:14 AM »
and there doesn't have to even be a verbal signal, the movement by Team B was clearly quick/abrupt and nothing related to a football move. Designed to induce a FST.

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: You Make the Call
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2021, 12:46:05 PM »
THIS IS WHY I AM SO PASSIONATE ABOUT THIS ISSUE! Our membership are not getting the correct understanding of the rules regarding illegal movements and disconcerting signals.

A verbal signal has absolutely nothing to do with an illegal movement by a defensive player. Period. This rule (7-1-5-a-4) was put in to stop defensive players from doing just this - making a MOVEMENT that is intended to cause a false start. Yes, we also have a rule (7-1-5-a-5) that prohibits verbal signals that are obviously intended to cause a false start, or otherwise disrupt the offense. These two rules are separate and distinct, and have NO bearing on each other.
You can have illegal disconcerting signals (verbal or otherwise) without any movement by a defensive (or offensive) player. And you can have illegal movement by defensive players with no signal whatsoever (verbal or physical).

The courage we need to call this is due to the fact that so many coaches falsely believe that they can "shift" however they want to - rolling bellyflops, cricket hops, etc. They think that if they move laterally, they can make those moves with abrupt movement. Incorrect!!!!! And, when it does get called, they go ballistic claiming, "It was a shift!" as though it is part of a normal defensive movement. Baloney and crapola. They are consciously and deliberately teaching their players to do this, to cause a false start. Cheating. Plain and simple.

They also incorrectly believe that, if there is no verbal call, they can do whatever they want. Incorrect!!!!!  A quick, abrupt, or exaggerated movement by a defensive player that is stationary and within one yard of the NZ before he makes the move, is nothing but an attempt to cause a false start, and is illegal. Period. It has nothing to do with a verbal signal!!!

As for verbal signals, coaches also believe, incorrectly, that if it is a call like "shift" or "move," that it is OK, because that isn't an offensive snap count signal. In-frickin-correct!!! If the "sound or cadence" simulates offensive signals, that is also nothing but an attempt to cause a false start, and is patently illegal. And it has nothing to do with whether or not any defensive players move, or if it causes any level of reaction by the offense.

Don't you wonder why it happens so frequently in high school football, but only very, very occasionally in NCAA FBS football? Because it is ILLEGAL, and FBS guys make the calls. Yet, somehow, HS coaches still seem to think this is legal. "Everybody does it!" No. Not everybody, Coach Moron. In my 14 years in FBS football, I only recall a handful of incidences when a team attempted to get away with this kind of thing. They didn't get away with it. In most cases, it was a result of a new D-Coord, who wasn't long out of high school football, and still thought it was legal.

Let's understand these rules. Let's educate these coaches, when we can. Let's have the courage to make these calls. Let's put a stop to these illegal and immoral attempts to gain an unfair and unsportsmanlike advantage over an opponent.
Step up!

Online JasonTX

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Re: You Make the Call
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2021, 02:45:51 PM »
I just watched the video and absolutely,  that is a foul on team B.  I can't see the chains but I seriously doubt this was on 1st and 10.  I bet this was 3rd and short.  It's the short yardage situations when they try these tactics.

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: You Make the Call
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2021, 05:37:53 PM »
That's DOG on B all day every day.  And even if the back towards bottom of the screen moved, he didn't gain an advantage (IMO) like B was trying to; in fact he was probably just reacting to B's movement, so all I would have is the foul on B.

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: You Make the Call
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2021, 06:33:44 PM »
Watched it again, myself. Nobody on Team A moves until after B77 makes his exceptionally abrupt move, and the other two d-lineman move, too. The wide receiver to the bottom of the screen and the up-back begin to move in reaction to the movements by the Team B players. There is absolutely no false start here. 77 commits the 7-1-5-a-4 foul.
I have no idea what was ruled by this crew, but this is truly a movement intended to cause a false start, and is a DOG foul by 77. I hope they go it right.

We have got to get these.