Author Topic: Championship Games  (Read 7221 times)

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Offline Txgarza

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Championship Games
« on: December 12, 2021, 05:07:35 PM »

6A1 TBD
6A2 Frisby, Tyler
5A1 Marcenelle, Houston
5A2 Theodore, Ft Worth
4A1 Herron, Dallas
4A2 Prine, Houston
3A1 Hall, Tyler
3A2 Bain, Tyler
2A1 Tilley, Ft Worth
2A2 Robertson, San Angelo

Congratulations to all.

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: Championship Games
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2021, 06:49:48 PM »
6A1 TBD
6A2 Frisby, Tyler
5A1 Marcenelle, Houston
5A2 Theodore, Ft Worth
4A1 Herron, Dallas
4A2 Prine, Houston
3A1 Hall, Tyler
3A2 Bain, Tyler
2A1 Tilley, Ft Worth
2A2 Robertson, San Angelo

Congratulations to all.

Looks like your list is a little light.
1A1 South Plains
1A2 South Plains

Offline TexDoc

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Re: Championship Games
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2021, 06:57:29 AM »
6A1 TBD
6A2 Frisby, Tyler
5A1 Marcenelle, Houston
5A2 Theodore, Ft Worth
4A1 Herron, Dallas
4A2 Prine, Houston
3A1 Hall, Tyler
3A2 Bain, Tyler
2A1 Tilley, Ft Worth
2A2 Robertson, San Angelo

Congratulations to all.

6A D1 is Houston.

Offline JDM

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Re: Championship Games
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2021, 11:34:54 AM »
6A D1 is Houston.

6A D1 Morgan, Houston

Offline Etref

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Re: Championship Games
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2021, 06:04:37 PM »
6A D1 Morgan, Houston
Slightly unusual for a chapter to work a Championship game involving a school they service during the year. Not good or bad, just unusual.
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Offline DallasLJ

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Re: Championship Games
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2021, 06:54:44 PM »
Slightly unusual for a chapter to work a Championship game involving a school they service during the year. Not good or bad, just unusual.
  Yes unusual but not for these teams.  When they meet in 2018 and 2019 the 2 coaches agreed to flip a coin to use Dallas or Houston Chapters.  Apparently North Shore won the toss this year.

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: Championship Games
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2021, 08:57:50 AM »
There was (at least) one game last year (2A D2) that was the same way.  I believe the non-local team was the one that selected the chapter, they requested the exact same crew as the year before.

Offline zebrahead

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Re: Championship Games
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2021, 08:30:35 AM »
Coaches have to much power and have for a long time.  These games should be assigned by UIL/TASO and NOT picked by coaches.  The way it works today if total definition of "Conflict of Interest".  No one can ever convince me that coaches are not in bed with some officials/Chapters.  And people complain about Washington DC.  It happens at all levels, Politics!!!

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: Championship Games
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2021, 10:36:52 AM »
Completely agree. And TASO is either complicit or incompetent in getting that changed.

The current system benefits chapters where TASO has a vested interest, so why change it? Who cares about all the small, or more-distant chapters.

I’ve yet to see a tangible benefit that TASO has worked for or implemented that benefited small chapters or even attempted to address inequalities of selection, or even to dispel the myth that larger chapter crews are better.

It’s actually an easy fix - TASO/UIL selects chapters, (and then chapters select crews), or you don’t get officials.

But let’s keep the current system, since it favors larger chapters with more votes.

Offline Etref

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Re: Championship Games
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2021, 11:57:05 AM »
So you think UIL and local chapters do not have politics, favorites, etc?  SMH

Coach selection may not be the favored way but do not kid yourself that everything would be peachy with UIL and chapters making the decision
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Offline dammitbobby

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Re: Championship Games
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2021, 12:18:15 PM »
Of course they do. But the lower you can push down those decisions the better off everyone is. Local chapters always have politics, but it’s better to have that at the local level than statewide. Having coaches pick is the worst possible way (IMO) to select officials. 


Offline ElvisLives

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Re: Championship Games
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2021, 12:54:58 PM »
So you think UIL and local chapters do not have politics, favorites, etc?  SMH

Coach selection may not be the favored way but do not kid yourself that everything would be peachy with UIL and chapters making the decision

The UIL should not be involved at all. But, considering the UIL is a division of the University of Texas, it won't change without legislative intervention. And just try to get state legislators - of which a huge number, if not a majority, are UT grads - to strip any amount of power away from UT. Not likely to happen. The only hope would be to have another office, independent of the UIL, established by the Legislature to take officiating assignments OUT of the UIL, and oversee officiating assignments for UIL athletic contests. Ideally, that would be totally independent of any other institution, but even such an office within a University system (A&M, Texas Tech, UT) could work, as long as they do not report to the same Vice Chancellor as the UIL. Then you would stand a chance of having an assignment system that could spread the assignments - particularly higher round playoffs and championship games - around the state, giving greater incentive to members of all chapters to improve.
I would envision such an office utilizing TASO, as it exists, to make regular season assignments, and then this office would approve/make playoff assignments, based upon a detailed assignment policy.

I must be asleep at my desk again. Somebody call me and wake me up...1-800-NOT-HPNN.




Offline Etref

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Re: Championship Games
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2021, 04:47:57 PM »
So you are saying we need to elect more Aggies?   LOL
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Offline psv

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Re: Championship Games
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2021, 10:10:18 PM »
So you are saying we need to elect more Aggies?   LOL

First off, Yes.  If we switched out all the sips with Aggies this state would run much smoother.

Second, there is no perfect system.  When I was a younger official, i was totally against coaches pick.  As i have aged (like cheese? :) ), i am ambivalent to it.  Since there is no perfect system, coaches have every incentive to make sure the crew can (A) call the game and (B) arent going to cheat them.  So, in the end, its the devil you know vs the ones you dont... and make no mistakes, there are devils in all the other picking systems too....

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: Championship Games
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2021, 11:17:27 AM »
But that logic assumes that only coaches are capable of making sure that the officials they select are capable, and aren't going to cheat them.  Of all the people involved in high school sports, coaches are at the bottom of the list of people who need to be making decisions regarding qualifications and impartiality.

I'm 100% onboard the train that says this is the worst possible system that could be in place.  ANY other halfway rational system would be an improvement.  I'm not content to have the worst possible system in place, simply because a perfect solution doesn't exist, or a better solution still has flaws.

But I do agree with you about Aggies running things LOL




Offline DallasLJ

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Re: Championship Games
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2021, 04:05:34 PM »
First off, Yes.  If we switched out all the sips with Aggies this state would run much smoother.

Second, there is no perfect system.  When I was a younger official, i was totally against coaches pick.  As i have aged (like cheese? :) ), i am ambivalent to it.  Since there is no perfect system, coaches have every incentive to make sure the crew can (A) call the game and (B) arent going to cheat them.  So, in the end, its the devil you know vs the ones you dont... and make no mistakes, there are devils in all the other picking systems too....
  Spot on.  I have also been around long enough when coaches rarely picked officials.  Almost no chapter worked in crews.  When a chapter would assign officials to work a game, it was often not the best officials, just the best connected officials.  No perfect system, but make no mistake, these coaches talk and get recommendations from other coaches they trust when making these selections.  They have to live with their choices and they know it.  They are not making random selections.

Offline CosmoKramer

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Re: Championship Games
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2021, 10:44:43 AM »
Just an opinion.  Not be critical in any manner whatsoever.  To me, the following is based on a combination of mechanics (50%), rules application (25%) and judgement (25%).

1. 6A D2
2. 1A D1
3. 4A D1
4. 5A D2
5. 2A D2
6. 1A D2
7. 3A D1
8. 3A D2
9. 6A D1
10. 2A D1
11. 5A D1
12. 4A D2
« Last Edit: December 21, 2021, 07:54:27 AM by CosmoKramer »

Offline Etref

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Re: Championship Games
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2021, 10:55:50 AM »
Cosmo
May need to check your list

1AD3?
5AD1 is listed twice

Having said that, I was not able to watch any of the games so I have no opinion
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Offline dammitbobby

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Re: Championship Games
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2021, 11:05:10 AM »
Are any of these available for replay on Ballysports/Youtube?  If so I can't find them on either (logged into both)

Offline CosmoKramer

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Re: Championship Games
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2021, 11:14:20 AM »
Cosmo
May need to check your list

1AD3?
5AD1 is listed twice

Having said that, I was not able to watch any of the games so I have no opinion

Sorry about that.  Typo's.  List is updated. 

Offline Whodatboy18

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Re: Championship Games
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2021, 02:39:26 PM »
The crew for 4A D1 was excellent, stayed on top of everything and worked well together. Just hope the L is doing alright after that hit he took to the face.

Offline JasonTX

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Re: Championship Games
« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2021, 08:09:21 PM »
Sorry about that.  Typo's.  List is updated.

Almost updated.   1AD2 is listed twice.

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: Championship Games
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2022, 05:22:23 PM »
The UIL should not be involved at all. But, considering the UIL is a division of the University of Texas, it won't change without legislative intervention. And just try to get state legislators - of which a huge number, if not a majority, are UT grads - to strip any amount of power away from UT. Not likely to happen. The only hope would be to have another office, independent of the UIL, established by the Legislature to take officiating assignments OUT of the UIL, and oversee officiating assignments for UIL athletic contests. Ideally, that would be totally independent of any other institution, but even such an office within a University system (A&M, Texas Tech, UT) could work, as long as they do not report to the same Vice Chancellor as the UIL. Then you would stand a chance of having an assignment system that could spread the assignments - particularly higher round playoffs and championship games - around the state, giving greater incentive to members of all chapters to improve.
I would envision such an office utilizing TASO, as it exists, to make regular season assignments, and then this office would approve/make playoff assignments, based upon a detailed assignment policy.

I must be asleep at my desk again. Somebody call me and wake me up...1-800-NOT-HPNN.

It'll never be changed overnight.  But, two things TASO could do, that could hep set the stage for change in the future: 

1) Implement a rule that says crews/officials can only call one championship game/year.  'Sorry coach, the crew you wanted has already been requested, and they are therefore unavailable, pick again.'

2) Implement a more aggressive rule that says crews/officials can only officiate one championship game in a three-year cycle.  'Sorry coach, that crew/official worked a championship game 2 years ago, and are ineligible to call another one until after next year, pick again.'

TASO would have a much stronger leg to stand on, regarding changes, if they put something like 1 or 2 to a membership vote (to my knowledge, they have never done so, for anything).  That way if UIL/coaches complain, they could at least say, 'Hey, this is what our members - your game officials - wanted', and it would be less likely to be perceived as TAO leadership advocating for the change.

Option 2 gets you further down the road of change; option 1 causes less friction.

Unfortunately, I don't think TASO has any interest in advocating for any changes that would benefit those outside larger chapters.  I've been critical of TASO in the past, because I don't see the value that they provide to me as a member, in advocating for me, in areas like this.  Maybe they are, and if so, they are just doing an spectacularly bad job at communicating what all they are working on, that benefits all members. 

As it stands now, I have to pay a $65 tax every year, for which I get nothing (that I can see) in return. 

« Last Edit: January 11, 2022, 05:58:23 PM by dammitbobby »

Offline JasonTX

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Re: Championship Games
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2022, 06:17:36 PM »
It'll never be changed overnight.  But, two things TASO could do, that could hep set the stage for change in the future: 

1) Implement a rule that says crews/officials can only call one championship game/year.  'Sorry coach, the crew you wanted has already been requested, and they are therefore unavailable, pick again.'

2) Implement a more aggressive rule that says crews/officials can only officiate one championship game in a three-year cycle.  'Sorry coach, that crew/official worked a championship game 2 years ago, and are ineligible to call another one until after next year, pick again.'

TASO would have a much stronger leg to stand on, regarding changes, if they put something like 1 or 2 to a membership vote (to my knowledge, they have never done so, for anything).  That way if UIL/coaches complain, they could at least say, 'Hey, this is what our members - your game officials - wanted', and it would be less likely to be perceived as TAO leadership advocating for the change.

Option 2 gets you further down the road of change; option 1 causes less friction.

Unfortunately, I don't think TASO has any interest in advocating for any changes that would benefit those outside larger chapters.  I've been critical of TASO in the past, because I don't see the value that they provide to me as a member, in advocating for me, in areas like this.  Maybe they are, and if so, they are just doing an spectacularly bad job at communicating what all they are working on, that benefits all members. 

As it stands now, I have to pay a $65 tax every year, for which I get nothing (that I can see) in return.

Option 1 is already a rule.  One championship game per year.  The championship game assignments come from the UIL.  Coaches can still request a specific crew but it goes through the UIL.  That crew must accept the first game request that comes in.  For example if a 2A game requests Crew Doe, but crew Doe is thinking they have a shot to be requested for the 6A game.  Crew Doe must accept the 2A game as they will not be allowed to choose the 6A game should it be a request for them as well.  Take the 2A game or none at all.  This includes all leagues.  If you get picked to work a TAPPS championship you are no longer available to work any other championship in any other league.

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: Championship Games
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2022, 07:43:11 PM »
Is any of this documented somewhere, policies in place, etc? Because I’ve not seen anything even remotely close to that, written down anywhere.