Playoffs - Week 5

[JBall]

There are more than a few possible culprits that should be looked at because of this.   The crew is not the problem.   Their only discretion was to accept a game they were clearly not qualified to work.  They absolutely did a horrible job but I am guessing that it is the same job they did all season.   The problem lies with either the coaches or the leadership of the chapter especially the Game Assigner.   

Just a SWAG based on things I know about a few of the assigners in the past.   This is a crew that is probably long in the tooth and this was a reward for many years of dedicated officiating.   I know of one crew that was guaranteed by the assigner to get a State Championship game if the chapter received one (this chapter almost always does).  Covid hit and the crew disbanded (HL & R retired).   If this was a coach's choice for whatever reason, the chapter should have denied the request.   If they did not realize the weakness of this crew, shame on them.   If they did know the weakness of the crew, ten times the shame on them.  I don't really have a problem with rewarding a dedicated official but surround him with the best support crew to make it a (good) memorable reward, not the plane crash that happened.

A recommendation for all new or upcoming R's.   Make sure that your crew is ready for the level of game you accept assignments for.   Before the season, assign one member of your crew to special/difficult rules as a backup for your brain farts.  In my case, I assigned the U penalty enforcement.  The HL got timing issues (ie: 10 sec runoff, teams choice for starting the clock at the end of a half, etc.) The BJ got the kicking game.  The LJ got the passing game.   Each one was to know their section completely and we used this for most pre-games. 

Just my $0.10

Don't place all that on the U!  Penalty enforcement is a crew responsibility.  Wings should be walking off or have walked off the enforcement with the U.  If someone is off quick chat to correct it. 

[CosmoKramer]

There are more than a few possible culprits that should be looked at because of this.   The crew is not the problem.   Their only discretion was to accept a game they were clearly not qualified to work.  They absolutely did a horrible job but I am guessing that it is the same job they did all season.   The problem lies with either the coaches or the leadership of the chapter especially the Game Assigner.   

Just a SWAG based on things I know about a few of the assigners in the past.   This is a crew that is probably long in the tooth and this was a reward for many years of dedicated officiating.   I know of one crew that was guaranteed by the assigner to get a State Championship game if the chapter received one (this chapter almost always does).  Covid hit and the crew disbanded (HL & R retired).   If this was a coach's choice for whatever reason, the chapter should have denied the request.   If they did not realize the weakness of this crew, shame on them.   If they did know the weakness of the crew, ten times the shame on them.  I don't really have a problem with rewarding a dedicated official but surround him with the best support crew to make it a (good) memorable reward, not the plane crash that happened.

A recommendation for all new or upcoming R's.   Make sure that your crew is ready for the level of game you accept assignments for.   Before the season, assign one member of your crew to special/difficult rules as a backup for your brain farts.  In my case, I assigned the U penalty enforcement.  The HL got timing issues (ie: 10 sec runoff, teams choice for starting the clock at the end of a half, etc.) The BJ got the kicking game.  The LJ got the passing game.   Each one was to know their section completely and we used this for most pre-games. 

Just my $0.10

Great take and summary of it all.  The shame of it is DPI is one of the easiest penalties to enforce.  Not saying easiest call to make but easiest penalty to enforce.  And, as stated, if an entire crew cannot enforce DPI correctly they have no business working any level of a varsity football game.  I'll give a miniscule level of understanding if it's a new official working their first sub-varsity game but that's about the extent of it.   There are some circumstances that come up every year where I wish TASO and/or UIL would do more about it, and this may be one of them, but that doesn't seem to happen.  Those other circumstances is another thread in the waiting.... 

[ElvisLives]

There are some circumstances that come up every year where I wish TASO and/or UIL would do more about it, ...

The sad thing is that TASO has very little ability to do anything about it, due to the UIL's selection process for officials. The UIL policy seems to require that officials must be either registered with the UIL (directly), or be a member of a recognized officiating organization (Like TASO). But, the language in the UIL manual is so loose, as long as they agree, if Coach Home and Coach Visitor mutually agree to use their 4 grandmothers and some guy they find in the alley behind my office, there ain't much to stop them. So, even if the guys they select are TASO folks, there is nothing to keep them from using the guys that will not call abrupt defensive movements, disconcerting signals, etc., will let them wander out to the hashmarks between downs, etc., etc., etc., even if they screw up some penalty enforcements (not likely to ever know, anyway). Their chapter may know they aren't the best crew available, but, with the spectre of going to a different chapter, if the coaches don't get who they request, the vast majority (if not all) chapters will simply acquiesce and give 'em who they want.
Until the UIL gives up control of officiating assignments, and TASO gains assignment independence, things will never get better.

[CosmoKramer]

The sad thing is that TASO has very little ability to do anything about it, due to the UIL's selection process for officials. The UIL policy seems to require that officials must be either registered with the UIL (directly), or be a member of a recognized officiating organization (Like TASO). But, the language in the UIL manual is so loose, as long as they agree, if Coach Home and Coach Visitor mutually agree their use their 4 grandmothers and some guy they find in the alley behind my office, there ain't much to stop them. So, even if the guys they select are TASO folks, there is nothing to keep them from using the guys that will not call abrupt defensive movements, disconcerting signals, etc., will let them wander out to the hashmarks between downs, etc., etc., etc., even if they screw up some penalty enforcements (not likely to ever know, anyway). Their chapter may know they aren't the best crew available, but, with the spectre of going to a different chapter, if the coaches don't get who they request, the vast majority (if not all) chapters will simply acquiesce and give 'em who they want.
Until the UIL gives up control of officiating assignments, and TASO gains assignment independence, things will never get better.

I get what you're saying but respectfully disagree with your point that TASO has very little ability to do anything about it.  TASO has shown they have the ability to implement standards, rules and procedures that they are then allowed to enforce.  Rules such as the official must make a 90 on the test to be playoff eligible, must attend a specified training to be eligible and no official may officiate more than one state championship game in a given year.  Based on your statement regarding coaches getting what they want, which unfortunately they do, then these TASO rules I listed would then not be enforceable by TASO if the coaches simply forced the issue to get who they want.  And if you've been around any period of time we've seen each of these rules applied by TASO. 

Don't get me wrong. I'm not disagreeing with you because what you stated about UIL's assignment process and coaches power is spot on.  I'm simply saying TASO could do more about some things if they so elected to do so.  My opinion is they (TASO) elects to not address certain things because they know how dirty things are within just about every chapter. 




 

[ElvisLives]

While I have recognized the UIL policy as being the root of all evil with regard to officiating in UIL sports for a very long time, I was not willing to rock the boat much in my earlier life/career. But, at the point I am now, I am just trying to spread the gospel of assignment independence to as many folks as will listen. I have opined before on how that would happen. It would most likely take action by the Texas legislature, and that would be harder to do than to break up the PUF and divide it proportionally among all public universities in Texas. Highly unlikely, given that the UIL is a component of the University of Texas.
The colonials eventually banded together to gain independence from England. Who’s to say we couldn’t get that done, too, if we all really want it? Sadly, like the upper crust English loyalists, those that are firmly entrenched in the upper echelons of the assignment chain, by whatever means, are not likely to lend a hand (except, perhaps, to, proverbially, “stab in the back” those that promote independence). And not being life or death, like political independence, support for such an assignment independence movement would likely be sparse, until there is some sort of “Boston Tea Party” event, to rally everyone to the cause.

Call me a liar, if you want. But, had I won the ‘2 billion dollar’ lottery, I would have been liberated, and would have thrown a lot of dollars at the folks necessary to get the legislative action needed to secure our assignment independence. But, I didn’t. And we are still subjects of the UIL.

[dammitbobby]

I agree with both of you.. whenever I describe how officials are selected in Texas for football, I call it what it is:  a blatantly corrupt process. Embarrassingly corrupt, in fact.  It is a contributing factor to how things like this happen, when officials are - to some degree - beholden to a coach and like Elvis said, pass on a call they should have made to have a shot at a game down the line... not to mention the reputational harm done to all officials when we kick a call like this.

Can you imagine the outrage if Nick Saban got to select a crew, and then had a controversial, game-changing call go his way?  Officials would be forever tarnished and thought of as being bought and paid for. 

But, like Kosmo said, there are things that can be done, and there is precedent for it, particularly around championship (and semis?  quarters? games.  At a minimum, TASO could expand their policy regarding one championship game per season, to one every 3.  That would vastly reduce pressure on officials, and also give other deserving officials a chance at a championship game.  How do you implement that?  The same way TASO implemented the other policy - 'Sorry coach, that crew/official called a championship game in the last three years, so they are unavailable to select.  Pick someone else.'

Another, more radical way -  have bigger chapters call the bigger games, and smaller chapter get the smaller games (don't know where that dividing line is.)  That helps chapters like El Paso, Beaumont, Pecan Valley, etc. who got zero playoff assignments this year, and Commerce, who had 1, and ETX had 4.  I'm not gonna lie, if I was in a chapter that got zero, or a small handful year after year after year, what motivation would you have to want to improve?  Sure, you have the 'I want to do the best job I can, and I'm happy never working a playoff game' argument, but let's face it, for the vast majority of officials, playoffs, especially championship games, is the payout, the satisfaction, the validation that we seek. 

The best way, IMO?  TASO implements a rotating system and each chapter knows what championship games they will have, when the playoffs begin.  We're never going to get rid of the 'dirty things' within each chapter, but IMO it's better to push the politicking down to the lowest levels of government, not the highest.

The other possibility, albeit a very long shot, is chapters standing up together to effect change.  'Sorry coach, we weren't good enough for you to select us at all, even when you could, in the playoffs, we're not good enough to call your regular season or subvarsity games.

And if anyone thinks things should stay the way they are, because they don't think El Paso or Commerce or SFA chapters are as good as Houston or Dallas or Fort Worth, man up and say so.  Quit hiding behind defective arguments.

(not saying anyone commenting on this thread has that opinion, but we're all lying if we say they don't exist.)

/offsoapbox

[DieHardCubFan]

Three blown DPI enforcements in a single game? Auch - that crew definitely needs further training in penalty enforcement.

Can anyone (without naming the chapter involved) name the game (teams involved) as finding film/broadcast of this game would be a great training opportunity?

[TxSkyBolt]

https://youtu.be/tWGQJK1JKfQ

6:04 4th Qtr (2:40:59 on the broadcast). DPI was the signal, but only 10 yards marked off so maybe actually DH was called.

1:36 4th Qtr (3:00:10 on the broadcast).  DPI in the EZ, snapped from the B28 enforced to the B2

[dammitbobby]

https://youtu.be/tWGQJK1JKfQ

6:04 4th Qtr (2:40:59 on the broadcast). DPI was the signal, but only 10 yards marked off so maybe actually DH was called.

1:36 4th Qtr (3:00:10 on the broadcast).  DPI in the EZ, snapped from the B28 enforced to the B2

Positive knowledge that DPI was the call, not DH.

[CosmoKramer]

https://youtu.be/tWGQJK1JKfQ

6:04 4th Qtr (2:40:59 on the broadcast). DPI was the signal, but only 10 yards marked off so maybe actually DH was called.

1:36 4th Qtr (3:00:10 on the broadcast).  DPI in the EZ, snapped from the B28 enforced to the B2

Thanks for sharing.  On the first DPI call where the ball was snapped from the 21 if DPI was called, which would be the call since the ball was in the air, I could be sold that the foul occurred at the 11 because when you stop the play at 2:41:04 this is where contact can be seen.  In this case they may have gotten lucky on the ball placement.  However, the process they went through to get the penalty enforced was ridiculous.  Umpire had no clue and was not getting help from anyone. 

The second one is down right unexplainable.  When watching the process of the penalty it looks to me that the R tells the U to put the ball at the 2 by the way he points downfield.  It then becomes even more inexcusable that nobody else on the crew corrected it.  Especially the L and H who should be doing their own mark off. 

   

[peterparsons]

To these, add:

7:04 1st Qtr (23:00) Half distance enforcement initially goes from the 16 to the 9. Does get fixed by the LJ before the next snap.

1:51 1st Qtr (37:45) Ball snapped at the 32, right hash, contact/DPI at the 19, left hash, ball spotted at the 17, right hash.

5:27 2nd Qtr (59:30) Not a penalty enforcement, just a long time to get to a very interesting spot for the next play.

1:10 2nd Qtr (1:13:10) 17/18 yards enforced for a late hit out of bounds after an interception. Ball ends up spotted at the 25 after enforcement, but the OOB spot is definitely not the 40. Looks like around the 42/43.

[ElvisLives]

Positive knowledge that DPI was the call, not DH.

On the one at 6:04 remaining, I'm wondering if they spotted it at the spot of the foul? We don't see where the B's flag lands, but, in looking at the video, you could make a case that the foul occurred at the B-11, and that is where the ball is ultimately spotted. And, other than that the ball should have been at the left hash, that would be a more-or-less correct enforcement. But it was certainly excruciating getting there.
If it wasn't the spot of the foul, then I certainly can't explain the succeeding spot.

On the one at 1:36 remaining, there ain't no explainin' that one. From the B-28. Foul in the end zone. 15 yards from the previous spot. 28-15 = 13.
They got it on the correct hash mark.

Some re-training needed.

[dammitbobby]

It doesn't look like they are using radios either, really surprised a 7-man crew wouldn't use them.

[Txgarza]

It doesn't look like they are using radios either, really surprised a 7-man crew wouldn't use them.

Not that it matters much but they do reach to their lapel during penalties. Looks like they do have radios. What bugs me besides the obvious, is that they don’t kill the clock after first downs consistently. Also the R winds the clock on situations where it shouldn’t be. No effs given by this crew.

[dammitbobby]

I was going by the fact the BJ on both DPIs came running all the way in to the R to report the foul in person.

[bctgp]

Surprised there hasn't been a separate thread on this yet.  They did it twice.  First one, ball was at 21 with DPI at the 3, and ball was placed at the 10 1/2 instead of the 6.  Second one, ball was at 28 with DPI in EZ, and ball was placed at the 2.

The DPI which had previous spot of B-21 was enforced correctly.  The DPI happened around the 10-11 yd line. Therefore, it is a spot foul. Now it took them a long time to get there and they initially did go to the B-6 but corrected it and ended up around the B-11. I watched the game on Youtube and only saw 1 incorrect enforcement for DPI - the second one you mentioned above from the B-28 with DPI in EZ..

[Kalle]

It doesn't look like they are using radios either, really surprised a 7-man crew wouldn't use them.

OK this makes the EZ DPI enforcement even more inexplicable - three deep officials, who should remember the previous spot at least in general terms ("somewhere around B-30") do not notice that you have a 26 yard penalty enforcement. I would be really surprised if I as a deep wing knew that "ok we have a DPI from B-28, that makes the succeeding spot to be B-13, I'll head over to the GL" only then to find that the wing is right next to me.

And no, in that situation it is NOT OK to just say "OK maybe I misremembered the previous spot." You at least ask the wing as to what the PS was or even better run in (killing any play clock if necessary) and get yourself sorted out with R and U. I have had one major European bowl game as a deep wing, and incorrectly remembering that Ineligible Downfield had a LOD component killed the play clock and ran in (this was way before O2O) to U and R to ask - yes, the game got delayed by 10 seconds, but if I'm unsure as to the penalty enforcement being correct, it is much better crew-wise for me to look foolish for a few seconds than the crew blowing an enforcement.

[CosmoKramer]

Well...I think we all agree it was a very misfortunate situation and a couple of misses.   Personally, I would have much respect if anyone from the crew would chime in to provide their explanation, which could be a simple "we eff'd up".  Otherwise, it now just needs to be an educational moment for us all so that we strive to know what we don't want to get wrong.  None of us are perfect and the selection system definitely isn't perfect so all we can do is make sure this isn't us in our next game. 

If you've got a game this weekend, best of luck!  Safe travels to all this weekend and the entire holiday season. 

[Kalle]

Well...I think we all agree it was a very misfortunate situation and a couple of misses.   Personally, I would have much respect if anyone from the crew would chime in to provide their explanation, which could be a simple "we eff'd up".  Otherwise, it now just needs to be an educational moment for us all so that we strive to know what we don't want to get wrong.  None of us are perfect and the selection system definitely isn't perfect so all we can do is make sure this isn't us in our next game. 

Well said. I think the main thing to take away from this is that penalty enforcement is always a crew responsibility, not "just" the referee's or the umpire's. Even with 7/8 officials, no matter your position, you do need to be aware of each penalty, where it should be enforced from, and where should you end up at. That way, if two or three crew members screw up, you can come in and save the crew. Better to take a long time and get it right than to screw up quickly. (Another personal anecdote: I've once had to announce a single penalty enforcement three times as we kept on screwing it up mostly because of me as a referee assuming things and other officials not immediately volunteering the information - but as a crew we ended up getting it right)

[ElvisLives]

Well said. I think the main thing to take away from this is that penalty enforcement is always a crew responsibility, not "just" the referee's or the umpire's. Even with 7/8 officials, no matter your position, you do need to be aware of each penalty, where it should be enforced from, and where should you end up at. That way, if two or three crew members screw up, you can come in and save the crew. Better to take a long time and get it right than to screw up quickly. (Another personal anecdote: I've once had to announce a single penalty enforcement three times as we kept on screwing it up mostly because of me as a referee assuming things and other officials not immediately volunteering the information - but as a crew we ended up getting it right)

 

(That's 8 on-field, alternate, GCO, PCO, RO, ROComm, ROAsst, Chain crew (4), alternate box operator, and observer. Oh, let's not forget the ball persons: .)

[JDM]

Not sure what the "level of the game" has to with this. If a crew can't correctly assess a DPI penalty, they are not ready for any level of contest.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk