Assisting the runner philosophy

[bossman72]

I have a discussion question for everyone: I never understood why we as officials don't want to call assisting the runner - I've always just been told not to call it.  From the coaches I've talked to, they want it called!  I've had multiple coaches ask me "how come you refs don't call assisting the runner?"  ...and I don't have a good answer for them.  Now, when there are obvious violations of this rule, I think we should be flagging this.  Thoughts?

[cbrunnjo]

I have called it and I always will call it if I see it.

We as officials have to see them physically pushing or pulling the runner. This does not include pushing the pile and this is what the coaches see a lot of times and they want us to call that.

[AlUpstateNY]

I thoroughly agree with you and consider this a safety issue.  When you have a 160 pound back stopped by a 260 pound lineman, it can be very dangerous for a 270 pound offensive tackle, or another 160 pound back with a running start to use the runner as a battering ram to bash past the defense.

I'll admit to using the alternative approach, of considering progress stopped at the point the battering begins, which hopefully negates the purpose of the battering, for instances that are not as obvious or flagrant.

[HLinNC]

Because 99 times out of a hundred, what you see isn't meeting the Fed's own definition. It may be a POE but look at their own  commentary in the rule book:

this act alone does not necessarily constitute a violation of Rule 9-1 unless an offensive player is in direct contact with the runner and deliberately attempting to move him forward.

.

It doesn't say "in direct contact with a whole gaggle of players" which is what normally happens.

[LarryW60]

Yes, "pushing the pile" doesn't fall under 9-1.  The assist has to be directly given to the runner.  If a member of the offense pushes, pulls, or lifts the runner in an effert to assist in their forward progress, then Assisting the Runner can be invoked.

[Welpe]

And while we're on the topic, the Bush Push does not qualify as "pushing the pile" IMO.

[Etref]

I have called it once in 25 years. Two linemen picked up the running back and threw him over the LS.

Anything else, I just kill forward progress.

[CanuckHL24]

Funny- up here in Canada we call it a "Tandem Buck". Same call I think.

Article 3 – Tandem Buck   

A player of Team A shall not help the ball carrier by grasping or pushing him or charging into him, to assist his forward progress. 

Penalty:  Team A  - 1.2D – L10 DR, 3D DG – L10 DR, 3D DNG – LB PBD.
    Team B  - L10 PLS or PBH

I've never called it but I have seen it called in High School Senior Varsity by another official.

 

[Andrew McCarthy]

I'd never call it if I had to announce "tandem buck".

[busman]

The wings are responsible for marking forward progress.  Generally speaking this occurs after the runner has been stopped.  He doesn't have to be "down" for forward progress to stop.  Kill it a couple of times and they will get the message real quick you won't put up with it.

[HLinNC]

Kill it

Utilized that exact philosophy on a try attempt last fall in a playoff game. 

[lawdog]

If we see it we call it.  I don't know where you find any rule support to just kill a play instead of calling the penalty that's causing you to kill it?!?!?! 

[110]

Funny- up here in Canada we call it a "Tandem Buck". Same call I think.

I think I've called it once - no, twice. Second time was last year. Both myself and a CIS-capable umpire flagged it, so it musta been obvious!

[SWilliams]

LOS is B's 7 yard line.  A1 hands off to A2.  A2 works his way outside and to the outside end of his tackle where some specatular blocking is taking place.  A1 who is now behind A2 and has been trailing him sees a DB at an angle coming, and A1 puts his hand on A2's back on around the 2 yard line, and gives A2 an extended arm push.

Flag or no flag?

[southarkumpire]

LOS is B's 7 yard line.  A1 hands off to A2.  A2 works his way outside and to the outside end of his tackle where some specatular blocking is taking place.  A1 who is now behind A2 and has been trailing him sees a DB at an angle coming, and A1 puts his hand on A2's back on around the 2 yard line, and gives A2 an extended arm push.

Flag or no flag?

Would the runner have scored without the push? Was he stumbling or otherwise stopped? I would have to know that before I flagged it.

[Aussie-Zebra]

Funny- up here in Canada we call it a "Tandem Buck". Same call I think.

I thought that it was the Calgary Stampede

[Aussie-Zebra]

Flag or no flag?

So A1 pushes A2 in the back to move him forward quicker to get him out of reach of the DB ?

[SWilliams]

Yes he pushes him to help him into the endzone.

[lawdog]

Yes he pushes him to help him into the endzone.

[TxGrayhat]

I'd never call it if I had to announce "tandem buck".

  name kinda sounds like the back yard game Buck Buck...Bill Cosby talks about.

[James]

What you used to see here on a regular basis is a RB getting the ball and hitting the line, then a second RB coming up and running through his back to propel him forward. Very risky for the guy with the ball, as he is getting a helmet or shoulder pad right in the spine.
Don't see it so much the last couple of years.

[LarryW60]

The wings are responsible for marking forward progress.  Generally speaking this occurs after the runner has been stopped.  He doesn't have to be "down" for forward progress to stop.  Kill it a couple of times and they will get the message real quick you won't put up with it.

No, the only message they will get is that they weren't fast enough helping the runner and they should try harder next time.  I really am amazed at how some officials have no problem bending the rules in order to NOT call an obvious foul.  Question: If his progress was stopped, why weren't you ALREADY on your whistle before you had a chance to notice someone trying to help?!  Answer: Because his progress really wasn't stopped, but I can't be bothered to actually throw a flag and report the foul.  In fact, I don't know why I bother bringing a flag onto the field at all.  I'll just kill the play anytime I observe a foul.  The players will get the idea after a few stoppages that they shouldn't be fouling.

[Etref]

The big problem with a whistle is did you see the ball?

[Harry]

They don't want it called.  They just want it called against the other team.  95% of what is technically "assisting the runner" is accepted football.  The only two acts that should be called are pulling a runner forward and possibly sticking a helmet in the runners spine.

[CanuckHL24]

  name kinda sounds like the back yard game Buck Buck...Bill Cosby talks about.

YES!! Buck-Buck! I'd forgotten about that Cosby thing- Now that you say it,
Its a fit!! Of course next time I call it I'll have to be careful with my announcement!