Author Topic: "Phantom" TD  (Read 10164 times)

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Offline TXMike

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"Phantom" TD
« on: October 02, 2010, 06:33:20 AM »
http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=156031&catid=339

GROVER - It was a classic rivalry game, a shootout decided by a single touchdown. It was a touchdown that everyone at the game now agrees never actually happened.

As the host Pawnee Coyotes shook hands with the rival Briggsdale Falcons on September 24, the scoreboard indicated a 62-57 Pawnee win. On paper it looked like another high-scoring shootout in six-man football. But while the game was over, it was far from decided.

A few things are clear: six unearned points appeared in the home team's column sometime around the half, Briggsdale's coaching staff noticed the error and pointed it out to the officials who did not alter the score, and both teams eventually played on as if the score was correct. Without the phantom touchdown included in the final tally, Briggsdale outscored Pawnee 57-56.

Pawnee insists the score on the field should stand.

After initially telling the rival schools to sort it out for themselves, the governing body for high school athletics in Colorado levied its harshest possible punishment on Friday, blocking Pawnee from postseason play.

A letter sent to Pawnee indicates the postseason restriction imposed by the Colorado High School Activities Association (CHSAA) will be lifted when Pawnee resolves the situation in an "appropriate manner."

Prior to CHSAA's sanction, both head coaches and Pawnee's athletic director spoke with 9NEWS.

"There were very unfortunate circumstances and everyone regrets that they happened," said Pawnee athletic director Kathy Adams. "We just had to go with the way the score stood on the field."

Asked point-blank which team won, Adams paused for a moment before answering.

"We won," she said. "That'll be the official answer. We won that game."

Pawnee head coach Doug Miller seemed to take no pleasure in his team's "win."

"I know, box score-wise, they won," Miller said. "I just feel kinda sick over this."

Several calls to Adams following CHSAA's sanction were not returned.

Briggsdale head coach Rick Mondt, who also is the school district's superintendent, would not directly say if he felt Pawnee made the wrong decision to retain the victory.

"Our kids feel like we won," Mondt said, adding, "It's not our call."

"That's what my team has to understand," Mondt said. "That's the lesson to learn."

Both schools originally appealed to CHSAA for a decision on the scoring error last Monday. The organization essentially punted, saying there was no applicable guidance in the football rulebook.

The rulebook is clear in one regard: no tie games.

CHSAA told the schools to discuss the situation and declare a winner, essentially handing the decision to Pawnee.

"We tried to be fair, we tried to consider all aspects," Adams said. "If it had been corrected early in the second half then the coaches would have coached different. And it can't be replayed."

Mondt questions why none of the officials refereeing the game had kept track of the score that night. A CHSAA official said the rules are clear: the referees are not responsible for scorekeeping, but rather protecting player safety and implementing the rules of the game.

In high school football, the home team's scorekeeping book is considered the official record and, unlike basketball and several other sports, the visiting team's scorekeeper is not required to sit next to his host counterpart.

Mondt has told his players they need to move on.

"We just have to live with the result," Mondt said.

Both Adams and Mondt spoke of the need to move beyond the controversy for the good of their communities which, despite being separated by 25 miles, are as close to neighbors as they have in northern Weld County.

"I don't ever see that changing, you know, the need of being there for each other and helping," Mondt said.

Pawnee and Briggsdale haven't always been rivals on the gridiron. The teams played cooperatively in the 1990s as Crow Valley. The combined team won back-to-back state titles.

LarryW60

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Re: "Phantom" TD
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2010, 08:26:18 AM »
Stuck between a rock and a hard place.  I'm sure there are 20 videos of the game where scores can be tallied up, but the conference's "no ties" rule has them in a bind.  There can be no ties, but the actual score when the game was over was a tie.

Offline lawdog

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Re: "Phantom" TD
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2010, 11:18:12 AM »
Without the phantom touchdown included in the final tally, Briggsdale outscored Pawnee 57-56.


How would that be a tie????

LarryW60

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Re: "Phantom" TD
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2010, 01:36:03 PM »
(Counts on fingers)... 1... uh... 2... uh... 4!  4 coach! pi1eOn

Ahh I see what confused me.  The comment in the article about no tie games.  Why would they say that when it wasn't a tie either way? (Stupid columnists!)  (and Stupid readers for not doing the math) pi1eOn

HAshleyTX

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Re: "Phantom" TD
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2010, 02:33:52 PM »
Quote
"We tried to be fair, we tried to consider all aspects," Adams said.

They admit the score mistake and what should have been done so why take a win you didn't really get? How is claiming a win fair?

Offline TXMike

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Re: "Phantom" TD
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2010, 06:34:48 AM »
Update:

Pawnee forfeits:

In case you missed it Sept. 24, the Pawnee-Briggsdale game was quite the barnburner. Initially, it was reported as a 62-57 victory for the homestanding Coyotes of Pawnee. It was later discovered that an inadvertent touchdown was added to Pawnee's total on the scoreboard at halftime, thus, in reality Briggsdale had won the the game 57-56. Even though the officials on the field should have kept the score, they didn't, so neither team budged in its thinking it had won the game. After the CHSAA placed Pawnee on restriction last week and threatened no playoffs, the Coyotes have since forfeited to their archrival. "We had to do the right thing," Pawnee coach Doug Miller said. Jon E. Yunt, The Denver Post


Offline TxSkyBolt

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Re: "Phantom" TD
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2010, 08:28:59 AM »
Had to do the right thing....after they were forced to.  Real good sportsmanship Coach...NOT!

LarryW60

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Re: "Phantom" TD
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2010, 12:01:52 AM »
LOL, in the original article they said the officials were NOT the official scorekeepers, now this guy from Denver says they were.

chymechowder

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Re: "Phantom" TD
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2010, 12:39:26 PM »
Quote
On paper it looked like another high-scoring shootout in six-man football.

 ???      Just googled six-man football. Wow, had never heard of that.

Are there still 5 officials?

Offline Welpe

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Re: "Phantom" TD
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2010, 12:47:16 PM »
???      Just googled six-man football. Wow, had never heard of that.

Are there still 5 officials?

In some instances there are but 4 is the usual for a varsity game (at least in this area).  Just worked one this past Saturday and had a greattime.

Offline Getting Fat

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Re: "Phantom" TD
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2010, 12:48:11 PM »
There are 4 officials.  The umpire is commonly called the BUmpire, the R does a lot of spotting.  It's exhausting working 6 man football.  It doesn't pay very much.  There aren't very many people at the games.  The fields often border the neighbor's cow pasture.  The scoreboards often don't work.  They sometimes wheel the lights in, and if those don't work they turn on the lights in the fans' trucks (no cars allowed at 6 man games).  It is a special experience, and I wouldn't give up my 6 man experience for anything.

Offline fencewire

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Re: "Phantom" TD
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2010, 01:40:18 PM »
There are 4 officials.  The umpire is commonly called the BUmpire, the R does a lot of spotting.  It's exhausting working 6 man football.  It doesn't pay very much.  There aren't very many people at the games.  The fields often border the neighbor's cow pasture.  The scoreboards often don't work.  They sometimes wheel the lights in, and if those don't work they turn on the lights in the fans' trucks (no cars allowed at 6 man games).  It is a special experience, and I wouldn't give up my 6 man experience for anything.

but for those of you that don't know about 6-man football in Texas don't be fooled, not all are as Fat describes...  well, that might be a cow pasture next door... :)


Offline Welpe

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Re: "Phantom" TD
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2010, 02:06:02 PM »
Holy cow, that's pretty neat.  It is still strange to me kicking off from the 30 but maybe that's just preping me for calling college ball.   ;)


ZebraDan

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Re: "Phantom" TD
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2010, 06:21:32 PM »
Regarding this game, it's really sad the crew didn't keep track of the score to prevent this. These games are usually quite high scoring.

In Iowa we don't have 6-man, but 8-man -- where the rules and field are virtually the same. Apparently Nebraska has 6-man, which also has different scoring. I like Fat's description -- some are very small communities, and I can vouch for livestock right behind the endzone or sidelines. We've had the truck headlights help us finish a game before as well. We also have a few 8-man teams in metro areas, usually small Christian schools. We use a normal 5-man crew, lots more running (by the officials) and higher scores. A single player can dominate, players on most teams play both ways. They're a blast -- my crew schedules a couple each year.

Offline scl-man

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Re: "Phantom" TD
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2010, 12:43:21 PM »
In SC, our Mechanics Manual is clear that the R keeps the official score.  It seems strange to me that this would not be the case everywhere.  Are there states, other than Colorado, where the R does not have this responsibility?

Offline Amir

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Re: "Phantom" TD
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2010, 01:47:37 PM »
In SC, our Mechanics Manual is clear that the R keeps the official score.  It seems strange to me that this would not be the case everywhere.  Are there states, other than Colorado, where the R does not have this responsibility?
I don't know about other states, but here in the UK we all have equal responsibility for recording scores.
Now look, you know different people think about life in different ways. Lawyers think life is a big court room, doctors probably think life is like a big operation, and bus drivers think life is... er... a big bus I guess, who knows what the hell those guys think. Anyway, I've always thought of life as a big football game...

Offline Etref

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Re: "Phantom" TD
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2010, 02:15:16 PM »
Fencewire,,,


Where the heck is that 6-man stadium at?   It is sure better than the ones I used to work.
" I don't make the rules coach!"