Author Topic: Beginning Ref.  (Read 18501 times)

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El Macman

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Re: Beginning Ref.
« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2011, 07:12:08 AM »
While I agree with Macman's comments that an IW isn't acceptable - any official that tells you he hasn't had an inadvertent whistle is either a brand new official, or he's lying.  :)

While my personal record is of no importance, for the record, ay no time did I say I'd never had an IW. In fact, 39 years ago, I had one, while working intra-mural football my second year in college. Guess what - I was carrying my whistle in mouth, at the time. Started carrying it in hand after that, and I haven't had one since. Solely because of carrying it in hand? No. A combination of carrying it hand AND being conscientious about making sure I see the ball in possession with the BC "down" or progress stopped. If in question, no whistle until there is no question.
Was my IW fatal? Thankfully, no. Not for intra-mural football. But, one was too many. As Grant noted, folks at more advanced levels have been released after having an IW. Was that the sole reason for their release? Who knows? But, the IW was their kiss of death. Has everybody that ever had an IW at advanced levels been released? No. I've been involved in two games in which another guy on the crew had an IW. Neither were released. Their coordinator was (is) one that was (is) more more understanding and forgiving than, perhaps, any other in the business - ever. But I know of coordinators that would fire their mother if she had an IW.   

As Jason says, "Back on track."
Remember: the only whistle that makes the ball a live-ball dead is an inadvertent whistle. In all other cases, the ball is already dead, and the whistle is just an aid to let the players know that the play is over. If, occasionally, the whistle is delayed because no official can see the ball with possession/down/progress stopped, that's OK. The play is still over. On very infrequent occasions, you might not even have a whistle after a play. Nobody sees ball/possession/down, and the next thing a player is handing the ball to the U, or, by the time the U gets to the downed BC, it is SO late no one wants to look silly by sounding a whistle at that time. Those things happens - very occasionally. Unfortunately, some guys think it is 'cool' to frequently not have whistles. That is a dangerous practice. Blockers leading a BC can not be expected to keep looking back to know if he is down, or still advancing. They have a right to expect to hear a whistle as often as possible to alert them that the play is over, and to discontinue action. That's why we have whistles to begin with. When we don't have a whistle at the end of a play, there is greatly increased risk of a player drawing a late-hit foul for blocking after the dead-ball. Personally, I've had to make that call, as distasteful as it was. Those responsible for progress and/or seeing the BC down, COULD have sounded a whistle, but simply chose not to. Well after the BC was down, a blocker knocked the crap out of a defender beyond the pile. I had no choice. If we'd had a timely whistle, that foul would not have happened.

So, have a whistle, but avoid the IW. Easy? No. That's why we get paid the big bucks.

Offline Andrew McCarthy

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Re: Beginning Ref.
« Reply #26 on: March 04, 2011, 10:27:46 AM »
While I agree with Macman's comments that an IW isn't acceptable - any official that tells you he hasn't had an inadvertent whistle is either a brand new official, or he's lying.  :)
So get yours out of the way early!

Offline Osric Pureheart

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Re: Beginning Ref.
« Reply #27 on: March 04, 2011, 06:59:36 PM »
The thought occurs that perhaps this thread might not be the best place for this discussion.

Offline RedTD

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Re: Beginning Ref.
« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2011, 05:32:34 PM »
The thought occurs that perhaps this thread might not be the best place for this discussion.
yEs: yEs: yEs: yEs:

Diablo

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Re: Beginning Ref.
« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2011, 07:01:40 PM »
I just went to my very first football officials meeting.I'm looking for some help on being a new official.Please share your experiences and what you think is the most important things to concentrate on early on? Thanks

Advice that I received many moons ago.
Never, ever forget that the game is primarily for the players.  Always keep that in the front of your mind.  Coaches are secondary.  Fans are tertiary at best.
 
Players go through long hours of practices and off-the-field meetings.  Try to match every hour they drill and learn, with an hour of rules & mechanics study, film review and conditioning on your part.  They deserve your best effort every play, every game.  Always remembering that can be a powerful motivator to do well.    
« Last Edit: March 07, 2011, 07:04:45 PM by Diablo »

Chester

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Re: Beginning Ref.
« Reply #30 on: March 07, 2011, 08:23:58 AM »
I had to look up the definition of Tertiary. 

110

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Re: Beginning Ref.
« Reply #31 on: March 07, 2011, 06:44:23 PM »
I had to look up the definition of Tertiary. 
That would be more fitting if you had to find a third source before you had one you could live with.

Offline VALJ

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Re: Beginning Ref.
« Reply #32 on: March 08, 2011, 09:22:43 PM »
While my personal record is of no importance, for the record, ay no time did I say I'd never had an IW. In fact, 39 years ago, I had one, while working intra-mural football my second year in college.

Oh, that wasn't directed specifically at you, Macman - hope you didn't take it that way.  And I certainly agree that IW's are bad. I've had three in my career - only one of which was relatively inconsequential, as it ended only shorting a team a couple of yards.  And I wanted to find a hole and crawl in it after each one.  Especially the one that happened in a playoff game, with the incoming commissioner of the association working at back judge.

As hard as we try to avoid them, they're going to happen once in a (hopefully great) while, and hopefully not in our game.  But, as said incoming commissioner said at halftime of that game, "there's a reason they put a rule in the book for that."

Edit: But yeah, we've gotten off track.  And I just helped get it back off track.  :)
« Last Edit: March 08, 2011, 09:24:30 PM by VALJ »

Offline VALJ

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Re: Beginning Ref.
« Reply #33 on: March 08, 2011, 09:24:58 PM »
That would be more fitting if you had to find a third source before you had one you could live with.


^good

Dommer1

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Re: Beginning Ref.
« Reply #34 on: March 19, 2011, 05:31:29 AM »
With_Two_Flakes touced on this when he talked about the stages of a new official. In WTF's stage 3, you start putting the foul into a context, into the big picture. Once you've reached this stage, ask yourself these three questions when you see a foul (or up to three questions anyway):

1. DID THE FOUL THREATEN PLAYER SAFETY?
If the foul was a facemask, clipping, block below the waist, or anything else that is a foul because the action is dangerous, you flag it. No need consider anything else, it's a flag.

If it did not threaten player safety, you move on to question number 2.

2. DID THE FOUL RESULT IN AN ADVANTAGE FOR THE FOULING TEAM?
A hold would be the typical example. Someone already mentioned the example of a sweep going one way, and the hold being on the other side of the field. It's a foul, sure, but it had no effect on the result of the play - hence we don't call it. However if a lead blocker holds a defender, and prevents him from getting to the ball carrier, then that's obviously a hold. Question 2 is often the toughest one to answer, and it will take some experience to consistently get right. In fact, it's going to be an ongoing project throughout your career. Even if you decide not to flag it, a word with the fouling player or his coach is often a good idea.

If it did not result in an advantage for the fouling team, you move on to question number 3.

3.DID THE FOUL THREATEN GAME DISCIPLINE?
Unsportsmanlike conduct is not dangerous, nor does it give the fouling team an advantage. Yet we can't allow it as it is contrary to the basics of sport and if uncalled it can result in a game that is difficult to control. Same things apply to fouls that you would not normally call, but that you have issued warnings for. At some point the line must be drawn, if you want your warnings to be respected.

If the foul did not threaten game discipline, well, in that case you have no flag!

Offline VALJ

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Re: Beginning Ref.
« Reply #35 on: March 20, 2011, 09:53:31 PM »
Dommer's got "stage 3" well described. 

A good veteran white hat will even give his less-experienced crewmates a nudge with this kind of thinking.  My third year, I was working a JV game with a R who I really think is one of the best ones we have.  I was working the wing with a sweep coming my way.  The center came down the line on the defensive side of the LOS and absolutely crushed the LB in front of the play right between the numbers on his back.  I had the flag, officiated the play, and had the spot several yards downfield. 

He came up to me after the play and asked me what I had.  "Block in the back, number fifty-whatever."

"I'm not asking this to question your judgment, but let me ask you: did the foul affect the play?"

"Matt, the block in the back is what opened the hole that the running back came through."

"Sounds good."  Signaled the penalty, marched it off, and off we went.

I've tried to remember that approach now that I'm the vet and working the white hat, trying to help teach the younger guys.

Offline bama_stripes

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Re: Beginning Ref.
« Reply #36 on: March 21, 2011, 07:54:17 AM »
"Absolutely crushed?"  That's going to draw my flag every time, regardless of impact on the play.

Granted, I might not see it if it's away from the play, but still ....