Football Officiating > Classics

"Hidden" Changes - 2011 NCAA Rules

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El Macman:

--- Quote from: zebra99 on June 30, 2011, 10:33:55 AM ---Now I'm really confused.  RR's note on UNS states:

5. If the defense commits a live-ball unsportsmanlike conduct foul during a down that ends in a touchdown, the penalty carries over to the try or the kickoff just like a personal foul. 

I couldn't find the 2011 rule authority for this, it must be there, can someone?  But since it came from RR, I'm going with it.

So, even though this is a try, why wouldn't it be enforced on the KO?  Hard to believe that the same bad act by B goes unpenalized just because it happened on a try!

What we have done last year?

--- End quote ---

Z99, you've hit the nail on the head. The 2011 book doesn't specifically have that provision, for Tries. I'm sure it was just an oversight, but, until somebody puts it in front of RR, it remains ambiguous. Just as 8-3-4 was edited to specifically  include UNS fouls, 8-3-3-b-1 should also have been edited similarly, but it wasn't. Deliberate? Or oversight? I'm betting on oversight.
Carry 'em over.

Hawkeye:

--- Quote from: zebra99 on June 30, 2011, 10:33:55 AM ---Now I'm really confused.  RR's note on UNS states:

5. If the defense commits a live-ball unsportsmanlike conduct foul during a down that ends in a touchdown, the penalty carries over to the try or the kickoff just like a personal foul. 

I couldn't find the 2011 rule authority for this, it must be there, can someone?  But since it came from RR, I'm going with it.

So, even though this is a try, why wouldn't it be enforced on the KO?  Hard to believe that the same bad act by B goes unpenalized just because it happened on a try!

What we have done last year?

--- End quote ---

10-2-5-a-1 takes care of the case when it is a down that ends in a touchdown.

El Macman:

--- Quote from: Hawkeye on June 30, 2011, 01:25:31 PM ---10-2-5-a-1 takes care of the case when it is a down that ends in a touchdown.

--- End quote ---

Except 9-2-5-e tells us to go to rule 8 for administering penalties during or after a Try, i.e., 10-2-5-a-1 only applies to regular scrimmage plays and free kicks.
Previously, 8-3-3-d-2 allowed us to 'carry-over' UNS live-ball fouls (as LBFPADBFs). But UNS fouls during the down are now true live-ball fouls, so that rule no longer governs those fouls. 8-3-3-b-1 should cover them, if it had been edited similarly to 8-3-4 to include UNS fouls; however, it doesn't show the same editorial change. Is that deliberate? Is it an oversight? Personally, I think it is an oversight. But RR needs to address this issue and tell us.
If I hear nothing more on this, and it happens on the second play of my opening game, I'm carrying the penalty over (if that's what A elects), and hoping for the best.

Hawkeye:

--- Quote from: El Macman on June 30, 2011, 02:10:32 PM ---Except 9-2-5-e tells us to go to rule 8 for administering penalties during or after a Try, i.e., 10-2-5-a-1 only applies to regular scrimmage plays and free kicks.
Previously, 8-3-3-d-2 allowed us to 'carry-over' UNS live-ball fouls (as LBFPADBFs). But UNS fouls during the down are now true live-ball fouls, so that rule no longer governs those fouls. 8-3-3-b-1 should cover them, if it had been edited similarly to 8-3-4 to include UNS fouls; however, it doesn't show the same editorial change. Is that deliberate? Is it an oversight? Personally, I think it is an oversight. But RR needs to address this issue and tell us.
If I hear nothing more on this, and it happens on the second play of my opening game, I'm carrying the penalty over (if that's what A elects), and hoping for the best.

--- End quote ---

I was simply addressing Z99's initial question of where that was addressed for touchdowns.

I understand your issue with the absence of the needed language in 8-3-3-b-1 and I believe that you are correct in assuming that it was an oversight by RR, much as I stated above that I believe he missed an editorial change in 9-1-9 as a result of the change in the definition of a passer.  Your other thread regarding the enormity of the editorial changes in this book is very apt.  I know there are those on this board who may have RR's ear, hopefully we do hear further on these issues.

zebra99:

--- Quote from: El Macman on June 30, 2011, 02:10:32 PM ---Except 9-2-5-e tells us to go to rule 8 for administering penalties during or after a Try, i.e., 10-2-5-a-1 only applies to regular scrimmage plays and free kicks.
Previously, 8-3-3-d-2 allowed us to 'carry-over' UNS live-ball fouls (as LBFPADBFs). But UNS fouls during the down are now true live-ball fouls, so that rule no longer governs those fouls. 8-3-3-b-1 should cover them, if it had been edited similarly to 8-3-4 to include UNS fouls; however, it doesn't show the same editorial change. Is that deliberate? Is it an oversight? Personally, I think it is an oversight. But RR needs to address this issue and tell us.
If I hear nothing more on this, and it happens on the second play of my opening game, I'm carrying the penalty over (if that's what A elects), and hoping for the best.

--- End quote ---

Agree, always better to ask for forgiveness than permission! :)

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