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Does this foul qualify for PSK?

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McRef77:
A 4/15/A20. Punter A-55 is standing on the A7. At the snap, he is under a heavy rush and the ball is partially blocked at the A8. The ball continues in awkward flight and strikes A-79 at the A18. A-55 runs forward and picks up the loose ball at the A19 and punts it again. B-14 makes a fair catch at the 50. During the first kick, defender B-97 held gunner A-41 at the A25.

NVFOA_Ump:
IMO no.  If the holding as described took place after the 1st kick but prior to A recovering the loose ball for the subsequent 2nd kick that then crossed the NZ,  that's a previous spot foul.

McRef77:

--- Quote from: NVFOA_Ump on October 14, 2010, 01:03:16 PM ---IMO no.  If the holding as described took place after the 1st kick but prior to A recovering the loose ball for the subsequent 2nd kick that then crossed the NZ,  that's a previous spot foul.

--- End quote ---

My question on this more or less pertains to "b." below which states the ball crosses the NZ.  When I first answered this, my answer was the same as yours.  However after I thought about it some more, it doesn't say the kick or related kick crosses the NZ so I think it qualifies since all items are satisfied by the play because regardless of how the ball crossed the NZ, it crossed it.  I thought this was a great question and would certainly like to see some more folks' opinions on this.

Postscrimmage Kick Enforcement
ARTICLE 3. During a scrimmage kick play, postscrimmage kick enforcement
applies only to fouls by Team B and only under the following conditions:
a. The kick is not during a try, a successful field goal, or in an extra
period.
b. The ball crosses the neutral zone.
c. The foul occurs three or more yards beyond the neutral zone.
d. The foul occurs before the end of the kick (A.R. 10-2-3-I, II and V).
e. Team A is not in legal possession of the ball when it is declared dead.
If these conditions are all met, the penalty is enforced according to the
Three-and-One Principle with the postscrimmage kick spot as the basic
spot.

NVFOA_Ump:
But remember the differences between scrimmage kick play and the down.  On the 1st "scrimmage kick play" the ball remains loose and behind the NZ, that is when, if I'm reading the initial case play correctly, the foul occurs,  A then regains possession, and some time after gaining possession, a running play however brief occurs, then A kicks the ball a 2nd time where the ball then crosses on a true scrimmage kick play.

I'm inclined to say that the actual foul occurred during the down, but well before the actual scrimmage kick play where "the ball crosses the neutral zone", and we would therefore enforce as a previous spot foul.

McRef77:
Okay, so although we only have one down, we have two scrimmage kick plays.  PSK states the ball must cross the NZ during a scrimmage kick play and the definition of a scrimmage kick play is the period between the snap and when the ball comes into player possession.  In this case it was possessed prior to crossing the NZ (which ended the first scrimmage kick play) and although it subsequently crossed the NZ, it was not during the scrimmage kick play when the defensive holding occurred.  Enforce 10 yards from the previous spot.  A 4/5 A30.  Clock would be on the snap following a legal kick down.

Sound right?

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