Author Topic: B Penalty on Last Play of Game Which Caused a Tie  (Read 2606 times)

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Offline CalhounLJ

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Re: B Penalty on Last Play of Game Which Caused a Tie
« Reply #25 on: December 03, 2020, 10:27:00 AM »
For today's trivia question when did the Fed actually revamp rule 8 such that the carryover applied universally?
Wild guess 2011


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Offline HLinNC

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Re: B Penalty on Last Play of Game Which Caused a Tie
« Reply #26 on: December 03, 2020, 10:29:18 AM »

Offline CalhounLJ

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Re: B Penalty on Last Play of Game Which Caused a Tie
« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2020, 11:10:59 AM »
I cheated.  2009
https://football.refs.org/rules/NFrules2009pr.html
Lol. Google is your friend.


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Offline CalhounLJ

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B Penalty on Last Play of Game Which Caused a Tie
« Reply #28 on: December 03, 2020, 11:14:45 AM »
Only reason I said 2011 was because I took 2005-2010 off when I moved down south. I came back to my hometown, signed back up in 2011. I remember getting my rule book and reading 8. I called my Wh and the conversation went like, I know I cant be reading this right. You mean to tell me that A can score Without having to decline Bs foul?  He was like, Yep.  I said, what in the world has happened to the game of football?

Sometimes I still wonder.


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Offline HLinNC

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Re: B Penalty on Last Play of Game Which Caused a Tie
« Reply #29 on: December 03, 2020, 01:35:08 PM »
Quote
Google is your friend.

Actually I have it bookmarked.  For 2010 and beyond, I print them off from NFHS and keep in a notebook.

I want to think that page was connected to The Official Forum at some point but I could be wrong.

Offline CalhounLJ

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Re: B Penalty on Last Play of Game Which Caused a Tie
« Reply #30 on: December 03, 2020, 02:01:07 PM »
That's a cool idea.

Offline bossman72

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Re: B Penalty on Last Play of Game Which Caused a Tie
« Reply #31 on: December 06, 2020, 04:16:34 PM »
Personally, I think it is overblown at this point and I would favor changing it to only live ball personal fouls "bridging" over from a scoring play and go back to A having to decline other live ball fouls by B.   If a receiver manages to score in spite of DPI, was that really a "free shot" at A?

The thing is with NFHS rules, not everything in Rule 9 that's 15 yards is a personal foul.  For example, you would think if the defense illegally blocks below the waist on a TD run, you'd want that to carry over.  But, it's not a personal foul in NFHS rules.  It's an Illegal Block Below the Waist (it's own foul).  So instead of having officials memorize which fouls carry over and which don't, they just had them all carry over.  I don't think it's a big enough of a deal to change, personally.

Offline CalhounLJ

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Re: B Penalty on Last Play of Game Which Caused a Tie
« Reply #32 on: December 06, 2020, 05:02:54 PM »
The thing is with NFHS rules, not everything in Rule 9 that's 15 yards is a personal foul.  For example, you would think if the defense illegally blocks below the waist on a TD run, you'd want that to carry over.  But, it's not a personal foul in NFHS rules.  It's an Illegal Block Below the Waist (it's own foul).  So instead of having officials memorize which fouls carry over and which don't, they just had them all carry over.  I don't think it's a big enough of a deal to change, personally.
I agree with this. No need to start reclassifying or identifying particular fouls. If we are going to carry over, carry them all over.  On the other hand, Im not sure there was sufficient need to implement the carryover rule in the first place.

Of course, I wasnt in on the discussion. Any of you guys have stats as to number of cheap fouls on scoring plays before/after the implementation of this rule?


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Offline HLinNC

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Re: B Penalty on Last Play of Game Which Caused a Tie
« Reply #33 on: December 06, 2020, 06:58:07 PM »
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So instead of having officials memorize which fouls carry over and which don't, they just had them all carry over. 

Makes sense.

As I am prone to say however, "the Fed hates exceptions, except when they don't"

Online Ralph Damren

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Re: B Penalty on Last Play of Game Which Caused a Tie
« Reply #34 on: December 08, 2020, 12:17:47 PM »
Another thing to remember on the carryover fouls is only USCs and PFs can occur after the ball becomes dead....ie.AFTER runner crosses goal line there is a BIB or 5yd FM by either team, UNLESS the fouls qualify as PFs they didn't occur.

Offline blandis

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Re: B Penalty on Last Play of Game Which Caused a Tie
« Reply #35 on: December 29, 2020, 03:21:54 AM »
I disagree. A face mask foul by the defense on a successful field goal or try to end regulation can be enforced in overtime.


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It appears I was not fully explaining myself, that's on me. A Succeeding Spot Foul can be enforced into Overtime. See 3.1.1 H

Offline CalhounLJ

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B Penalty on Last Play of Game Which Caused a Tie
« Reply #36 on: December 29, 2020, 06:17:54 AM »
I just came across this thread and need to point out that you can not have a "Carryover" Foul, as defined by 8-2-2,3, & 4, enforced on the first play of Overtime when the foul in question occurred on the last play of the 4th quarter. Only a Dead Ball Foul or Succeeding Spot Foul that occurred during the last play or after it can be enforced on the first play of Overtime. There is no way a live ball foul, such as a face mask foul, can be enforced on the last play of regulation into Overtime, or on a Try into Overtime.

The problem is with your last sentence. A live ball foul on a try CAN be carried over into overtime.  Does NOT have to be a succeeding spot foul.


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« Last Edit: December 29, 2020, 06:50:21 AM by CalhounLJ »

Online Ralph Damren

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Re: B Penalty on Last Play of Game Which Caused a Tie
« Reply #37 on: January 14, 2021, 11:58:28 AM »
The discussion on this 2009 rule centered around : "NO FOUL SHOULD GO UNPUNISHED" and cheap shots by the opponents when a player is about to score. If the opponents of the scoring team fouled before there was a change of possession, that foul would not be bridged over as the fouling player wouldn't have knowledge that the opponents were to score. Remember if the foul occurs after the score, it is waved off unless PF or USC (BIB,Holding & 5yd FM come to mind).