Author Topic: TV Timeout  (Read 1209 times)

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Offline bama_stripes

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Re: TV Timeout
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2021, 06:36:25 AM »
If the injury is to a B player, then B has gained an advantage contrary to the written rule.

Remember that the R has the authority to alter normal timing rules to prevent a team from gaining an advantage.
DISCLAIMER: This should only be used in rare and very obvious situations

Offline CalhounLJ

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Re: TV Timeout
« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2021, 06:47:28 AM »
Remember that the R has the authority to alter normal timing rules to prevent a team from gaining an advantage.
DISCLAIMER: This should only be used in rare and very obvious situations
Ok, I’m getting confused, and so let me attempt to clarify. The Original question had nothing to do with the play clock. The poster wanted to know whether the media timeout, which requires a snap restart of the game clock, trumps the original injury timeout, which requires a restart according to previous game clock status, using NFHS rules. The answer to that question seems to be yes.  Is this correct?

Now, with the play clock inserted into the question, and a hypothetical problem ( I.e., B has gained an advantage  with the insertion of the media timeout) [ I’m assuming A is ahead, trying to burn clock, and so the media timeout would prevent that], the question now is whether the Referee can restart the game clock on the ready after the media timeout, and put :40 on the play clock.  Is that the new question?


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Offline sczeebra

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Re: TV Timeout
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2021, 08:26:34 AM »
A’s ball 3rd & 1 from their 5, 1 minute left in the game. A runs the ball up the middle and is short of the line to gain, B55 is injured on the play. The injury is serious and it takes some time to remove him from the game, the red hat waves the flag for a TV timeout. B has no timeouts left. The clock should have started on the ready (40 sec play clock). Now are we going to be so resolute in having the game clock start on the snap? Rule:1-1-6 would have me start the game clock on the ready as not to disenfranchise A on their clock management. Will this ever happen????? Probably not but it’s worth the discussion.

Online HLinNC

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Re: TV Timeout
« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2021, 08:35:58 AM »
1-1-6 is for scenarios having no rules coverage.  A media timeout has rules coverage under 3-4-3f.  If as a white hat you felt that strongly about the media timeout, go tell the red hat that you intend to re-start the game immediately upon resolution of the injured player.   You better be quick and proactive about it but in the end if TV breaks away, and you start back without them, its your BUTT that's going to get chewed so if you want to be that big a stickler, have at it.

Offline CalhounLJ

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Re: TV Timeout
« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2021, 08:40:15 AM »
I have to agree with HL here. I’m not a fan of “the god rule” mainly because of the potential for abuse. I think using the rules as written here provide a fair outcome, especially since B hasn’t intentionally tried to manipulate the situation to their advantage. There’s no way the player or coaches for that matter, could know of the media decision beforehand.


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Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: TV Timeout
« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2021, 09:20:19 AM »
I have to agree with HL here. I’m not a fan of “the god rule” mainly because of the potential for abuse. I think using the rules as written here provide a fair outcome, especially since B hasn’t intentionally tried to manipulate the situation to their advantage. There’s no way the player or coaches for that matter, could know of the media decision beforehand.
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NFHS 1-1-6, is actually far less of "The God Rule" as it is a rule to prohibit, or at least shorten, endless, unproductive and redundant arguments at extended "short-arm inspection contests" about what usually amount to guesses and/or unfounded opinions.  Common sense, actually understanding of both the letter & spirit of our rules and honest impartiality and fairness are COMMON TRAITS, found far more frequently in competent field officials, than those with a compelling interest in which team wins.

ANY interest in "manipulation" to steer a decision towards "advantage" is  found far more present in those advocating for a beneficial outcome.  Most often, 1-1-6 provides the opportunity for an impartial "grown-up" to reach a rational conclusion.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2021, 09:23:40 AM by AlUpstateNY »

Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: TV Timeout
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2021, 01:35:35 PM »
.....   Most often, 1-1-6 provides the opportunity for an impartial "grown-up" to reach a rational conclusion.
So what would you have done in the original posted situation?
It's easy to get the players, getting 'em to play together, that's the hard part. - Casey Stengel

Offline sczeebra

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Re: TV Timeout
« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2021, 01:56:17 PM »
Great discussion about the scenario I brought forth earlier. Yes I knew for sure 3-4-6 had no relevance and I have come to agree that concerning 1-1-6, this play is covered by the rules. I have officiated a few tv games as a wingman but never as a white hat. I appreciate everyone’s input and have come to a conclusion as to how I would address a situation where a tv timeout would place a team at a disadvantage or as in this case give a team an advantage. I will simply during the timeout for injury approach the red flag and politely tell him that while the station may be going to a commercial break I will not allow him to interrupt the game and to please go to the sidelines and we will return to play as soon as the injury timeout is over applying the proper timing mechanics. Thanks, Guys.

Offline CalhounLJ

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Re: TV Timeout
« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2021, 02:09:04 PM »
Great discussion about the scenario I brought forth earlier. Yes I knew for sure 3-4-6 had no relevance and I have come to agree that concerning 1-1-6, this play is covered by the rules. I have officiated a few tv games as a wingman but never as a white hat. I appreciate everyone’s input and have come to a conclusion as to how I would address a situation where a tv timeout would place a team at a disadvantage or as in this case give a team an advantage. I will simply during the timeout for injury approach the red flag and politely tell him that while the station may be going to a commercial break I will not allow him to interrupt the game and to please go to the sidelines and we will return to play as soon as the injury timeout is over applying the proper timing mechanics. Thanks, Guys.
Thanks for posting. While reading back over your op, I chuckled over the phrase, “quick question.” Often what seems simple has hidden caveats only revealed through  extensive discussion. Good luck with your plan.


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Online HLinNC

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Re: TV Timeout
« Reply #34 on: February 15, 2021, 02:45:56 PM »
Quote
I will simply during the timeout for injury approach the red flag and politely tell him that while the station may be going to a commercial break I will not allow him to interrupt the game and to please go to the sidelines and we will return to play as soon as the injury timeout is over applying the proper timing mechanics.

I would urge you to run this case by your state or district supervisor before proceding with that action plan.  My RSO once told the group "I never get phone calls about calls that you DON'T make."

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: TV Timeout
« Reply #35 on: February 15, 2021, 05:58:19 PM »
So what would you have done in the original posted situation?

Do my very best to assess the situation as thoroughly as possible to arrive at a solution ,"in the spirit of good sportsmanship" that avoids any discernible  unearned, or unfair, advantage or disadvantage provided to either team. 

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: TV Timeout
« Reply #36 on: February 17, 2021, 01:21:18 PM »
I will simply during the timeout for injury approach the red flag and politely tell him that while the station may be going to a commercial break I will not allow him to interrupt the game and to please go to the sidelines and we will return to play as soon as the injury timeout is over applying the proper timing mechanics. Thanks, Guys.

Can not address televised NFHS contests, but I can say with authority (14 seasons of FBS football - 8 as referee) that, in NCAA, we do not have authority to circumvent the TV process. Like it or not, when they want a break, they get it (even if it may be beyond their pre-planned set of breaks), and we don't resume play until the liaison ("red hat" - not "red flag") releases us. I can just imagine how quickly you would be fired if you consciously refused to go to break, or deliberately resumed play before being released by the liaison. Since they have contractual agreements with the various conferences, the TV folks would be all over the Commissioner. The Commissioner would be all over the Coordinator. And the Coordinator would not need to be all over you - he'd just fire you immediately, and have no need to talk to you, ever again. (What is it that flows downhill?)

Having said that, when talking to TV producers pre-game, they almost always made the claim that they wouldn't go to break following a "sudden change," like an interception, so it wouldn't disturb the natural momentum ebb and flow.  And they almost always kept their word. But, in one game I had, the liaison stepped out on to the field with his arms crossed (universal signal for a break request) after a big interception. I just looked at him, shook my head, and pointed to the ground, i.e., "stay here," and a moment later he backed off and we played on. No repercussion, as it was the right call, per TV's own process. Now, had the liaison stayed out and insisted on the break, I would have let them have it, and I would have put that in my game report.

As for game clock / play clock status when returning from a TV break, it was simple for us. For the purposes of clock status, the TV break never happened. They both simply obeyed the rules for whatever caused the clock to stop to begin with. After signaling and announcing the T/O, I'd always immediately check with my S to confirm the clock status when we come out of the break. Likewise, I'd confirm the play clock status with the B, and make sure it was set for the correct duration for when we resume play. Then, after the break, like the really good S he was, I'd look to my S and he'd always be echoing that game clock status as I was about to signal the ball ready for play. Never had an error or issue.   

Offline sczeebra

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Re: TV Timeout
« Reply #37 on: February 17, 2021, 02:52:29 PM »
Elvis does live!!! Thanks