Author Topic: Chains set errantly  (Read 447 times)

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Offline BetweenTheLines

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Chains set errantly
« on: March 14, 2021, 08:15:08 AM »
There was a discussion last week concerning a play that happened last year. After a try the following free kick resulted in a touchback where the chains were errantly set at the 25 yard line. A snapped the ball and gained 4 yards to the 29 when the mistake was noticed. The crew reset the chains at the 20 and replayed first down. I said to my friend that I would have reset the chains to the 20 and set the ball at the 24 and made it 2nd and 6 from there. Maybe they should have just played on and ate the mistake. Anyone have any ideas or rule support on a case like this? Yes I know, donít let this happen and you wonít have to worry about it!!!

Offline CalhounLJ

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Re: Chains set errantly
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2021, 08:17:39 AM »
There was a discussion last week concerning a play that happened last year. After a try the following free kick resulted in a touchback where the chains were errantly set at the 25 yard line. A snapped the ball and gained 4 yards to the 29 when the mistake was noticed. The crew reset the chains at the 20 and replayed first down. I said to my friend that I would have reset the chains to the 20 and set the ball at the 24 and made it 2nd and 6 from there. Maybe they should have just played on and ate the mistake. Anyone have any ideas or rule support on a case like this? Yes I know, donít let this happen and you wonít have to worry about it!!!
So they set the chains at the 25?  Did they run the first play from the 25 as well?


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Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Chains set errantly
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2021, 09:29:51 AM »
The difficult part of NFHS 1-1-6 is that it's based on the simple fact that common sense, sound judgment, and simple fairness are inherent requirements of the ability to determine decisions based on, "the spirit of good sportsmanship' to address "situations not specifically covered in the rules".

Such determinations are NOT "God like" in ANY manner and simply require a designated single source to honestly and fairly ASSESS a circumstance and reason a solution, fair to all sides that does not support an unfair advantage or consequence to either contestant and allows the competition to continue with as little material impact to either side. 

The, "common sense, sound judgment, and simple fairness" objectives of decisions reached MUST be accepted, whether TOTALLY agreed with, or not, for the continued benefit of the competition, and the ability to resume play free of unnecessary contention as quickly as possible.  The purpose is to avoid endless argument between obviously partisan interests leaving the final determination up to a recognized neutral authority.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2021, 09:40:11 AM by AlUpstateNY »

Offline BetweenTheLines

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Re: Chains set errantly
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2021, 09:33:53 AM »
The snap was from the 25.

Offline CalhounLJ

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Re: Chains set errantly
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2021, 09:40:15 AM »
I would invoke 1-1-6 reset the chains and start over.


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Online HLinNC

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Re: Chains set errantly
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2021, 07:21:54 PM »
That's a lot of people missing a mistake- 4-7 officials, one defensive Head Coach, 3-4 chain crew members.

Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: Chains set errantly
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2021, 09:08:45 PM »
The difficult part of NFHS 1-1-6 is that it's based on the simple fact that common sense, sound judgment, and simple fairness are inherent requirements of the ability to determine decisions based on, "the spirit of good sportsmanship' to address "situations not specifically covered in the rules".

Such determinations are NOT "God like" in ANY manner and simply require a designated single source to honestly and fairly ASSESS a circumstance and reason a solution, fair to all sides that does not support an unfair advantage or consequence to either contestant and allows the competition to continue with as little material impact to either side. 

The, "common sense, sound judgment, and simple fairness" objectives of decisions reached MUST be accepted, whether TOTALLY agreed with, or not, for the continued benefit of the competition, and the ability to resume play free of unnecessary contention as quickly as possible.  The purpose is to avoid endless argument between obviously partisan interests leaving the final determination up to a recognized neutral authority.

And your solution is?

I would invoke 1-1-6 reset the chains and start over.

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I would agree (invoke 1-1-6) but I would have suggested to the R that after we reset the chains we go 2nd and 6 from the 24.
It's easy to get the players, getting 'em to play together, that's the hard part. - Casey Stengel

Offline bossman72

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Re: Chains set errantly
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2021, 09:30:19 PM »
I like 2nd and 6 from the 24.  The chains being set at the 25 didn't affect strategy or anything else.

I know under NFHS rules, that if you have the wrong DOWN, that you have to go back and replay the down from when you screwed up the series (5-1-1b - CB 5.1.1D).  However, the downs were correct, the chains were not, so different story.

Offline bama_stripes

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Re: Chains set errantly
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2021, 07:51:55 AM »
That's a lot of people missing a mistake- 4-7 officials, one defensive Head Coach, 3-4 chain crew members.

My first thought as well.  Saturday rule in a Friday game?

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Chains set errantly
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2021, 09:04:35 AM »
And your solution is?

I would agree (invoke 1-1-6) but I would have suggested to the R that after we reset the chains we go 2nd and 6 from the 24.

Actually, I agree with your suggestion, since it clearly provides a "No harm, no foul" solution.  The point is, that invoking NFHS 1-1-6 is NOT any effort to act/behave "God like", rather a clear cut opportunity for a certified and recognized, unbiased and impartial authority figure (alone) to exercise the "common sense, sound judgment, relevant objectivity & fairness" that God likely provided him with, to end an interruption, that is otherwise not specified by rule, from continuing play.

Offline SCline

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Re: Chains set errantly
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2021, 01:26:19 PM »
2nd and 6 from the 24

Online Ralph Damren

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Re: Chains set errantly
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2021, 11:15:45 AM »
A few years ago a protocol was suggested for improper YTG chain placement. It was soundly defeated for 2 major reasons:

(1) The previous year a rule passed dealing with correcting the down that caused more problems than it solved. The majority feeling was that it should be left up to the referee to correct screwups fairly under 1-1-6;
(2) I submitted a play that we had happen that added support to it's defeat :
  (a) 1/10 @ B's 20, late in game A trails by 4;
  (b) A rushes to LOS and snaps before RFP;
  (c) dog, ball moved back to B's 25, 1/15;
  (d) now 4/3 @ B's 13;
WHOOPS  tR:oLl tR:oLl :puke: :puke: :puke: (Ö

BECAUSE THE DOG FOUL OCCURRED PRIOR TO THE RFP, THE CHAINS SHOULD HAVE BEEN RESET TO 1/10 @ 25...Ö
FIRST DOWN  :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

 :!#IT WOULDN'T BE FUN EXPLAINING THIS TO B COACH 'S

[/In the post, I would probably would have added time back on the clock and announced a "do-over" unless a new series was gained by either A OR B, then I would just whistle "mister touchdown" and let the band play on.... color]
« Last Edit: March 16, 2021, 11:18:23 AM by Ralph Damren »