« previous next »
Pages: [1]

Author Topic: DPI or Holding ?  (Read 12221 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Aussie-Zebra

  • *
  • Posts: 525
  • FAN REACTION: +8/-3
  • Australian Gridiron Officials Association
    • Gridironwest
DPI or Holding ?
« on: March 17, 2010, 08:59:12 PM »
I came across this the other day - and I got it wrong - what do you think happens ?
3rd and 18 from Team A’s 30-yard line. A1 throws a legal forward pass toward receiver A80, which falls incomplete. While the pass was in the air, B90 grabs the shirt of A80 at Team A’s 36-yard line, preventing A80 from catching the pass. The pass was catchable to A80.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2010, 06:18:50 AM by AussieZebra »
Logged
For every coach that thinks we got it wrong there's another that thinks we got it right.

Offline cperezprg

  • *
  • Posts: 80
  • FAN REACTION: +1/-0
Re: What happens next ?
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2010, 02:44:10 AM »
DPI
1&10 A36
 ???
Logged
Carlos.

Spain.

Offline Aussie-Zebra

  • *
  • Posts: 525
  • FAN REACTION: +8/-3
  • Australian Gridiron Officials Association
    • Gridironwest
Re: What happens next ?
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2010, 02:57:51 AM »
That's what I thought - wrong
Logged
For every coach that thinks we got it wrong there's another that thinks we got it right.

Offline Kalle

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3310
  • FAN REACTION: +109/-35
Re: What happens next ?
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2010, 03:11:17 AM »
Weeel, it isn't wrong as such. Technically you can call two different fouls here, either DPI or defensive holding. As the penalty for holding is more severe, I think you should call that, resulting in 1st and 10 at A-40. I didn't find any rule saying that you must call holding in this situation, the closest rule is 7-3-9-e but it applies only for personal fouls.

Logged

Offline Aussie-Zebra

  • *
  • Posts: 525
  • FAN REACTION: +8/-3
  • Australian Gridiron Officials Association
    • Gridironwest
Re: What happens next ?
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2010, 03:14:54 AM »
Yep - you got it Kalle - while DPI is correct Holding 1st and 10 on the 40 is the better call - like Carlos I missed the holding call and just went for the DPI
Logged
For every coach that thinks we got it wrong there's another that thinks we got it right.

Offline James

  • *
  • Posts: 692
  • FAN REACTION: +7/-6
Re: What happens next ?
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2010, 03:40:47 AM »
I asked about this in my association and was told DPI ALWAYS trumps the holding - even when the holding whould give them better postion (local philosophy).
Don't agree with it, but that is how I was told to call this.
I think I'll bring it up at our meeting again this year to see if they have changed their opinion.
Logged

Offline jg-me

  • *
  • Posts: 416
  • FAN REACTION: +22/-4
Re: DPI or Holding ?
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2010, 08:44:26 AM »
This is not a 'local philosophy' issue. 7-3-8-a & c are quite clear. Illegal contact by B while a catchable, legal forward pass is in the air IS pass intereference and not any other foul. See AR's 7-3-8 IX, X and XI for rulings. The exception is 7-3-9-e. If B commits an act that is DPI and would also be a personal foul, Team A may accept either the DPI or the PF.
Logged

Offline Kalle

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3310
  • FAN REACTION: +109/-35
Re: DPI or Holding ?
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2010, 09:02:09 AM »
Seems that Rom agrees with jg-me et al, so I'll reverse my opinion on this.
Logged

Offline Aussie-Zebra

  • *
  • Posts: 525
  • FAN REACTION: +8/-3
  • Australian Gridiron Officials Association
    • Gridironwest
Re: DPI or Holding ?
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2010, 09:23:17 AM »
Interesting - this states
Quote
Catchable Forward Pass—ARTICLE 4
Approved Ruling 2-19-4
I. A88, beyond the line of scrimmage, is maneuvering to catch a
legal forward pass thrown directly to his position. Just before the
ball reaches A88, defensive back B30 drives through A88’s back.
B12 then steps in front of A88 and intercepts the pass. RULING:
Pass interference by B30, if the pass is ruled as catchable and the
interception occurs after the block by B30.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2010, 09:31:47 AM by AussieZebra »
Logged
For every coach that thinks we got it wrong there's another that thinks we got it right.

Offline Kalle

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3310
  • FAN REACTION: +109/-35
Re: DPI or Holding ?
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2010, 09:29:10 AM »
You can interpret the rules in two ways.

1. 7-3-9-e defines one case where you can choose between two penalties. As it exists and doesn't list any other fouls, holding that meets PI criteria must be only PI.

2. 7-3-9-e is only a clarification and should not be read to be an exhaustive list. Holding that meets PI criteria can be either holding or PI.

It seems that NCAA wants the first interpretation, not the second. I wish one of the A.R.'s jg-me listed would have the spot of the foul be less than ten yards from the previous spot, then there would be simple A.R. support for the first interpretation.
Logged

Offline Aussie-Zebra

  • *
  • Posts: 525
  • FAN REACTION: +8/-3
  • Australian Gridiron Officials Association
    • Gridironwest
Re: DPI or Holding ?
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2010, 09:32:25 AM »
Sorry Kalle - I changed my post

I'm not sure where it is but I did read somewhere that the "spirit of the rules" is to enforce the penalty that penalises (spelling is correct english) the most which would be holding 10 yds @ the 40. However I notice that 7-3-8-e says
Quote
Contact by Team B with an eligible receiver involving a personal foul that interferes with the reception of a catchable pass may be ruled either as pass interference or as a personal foul with the 15-yard penalty enforced from the previous spot

so wouldn't that be 1st & 10 at the 45 ?
Can this ruling change the penalty for holding from 10 to 15 yds ?

I would love it if It showed DPI had to be enforced as it would give me a Level 2 pass  ;D
« Last Edit: March 18, 2010, 09:44:58 AM by AussieZebra »
Logged
For every coach that thinks we got it wrong there's another that thinks we got it right.

Offline With_Two_Flakes

  • *
  • Posts: 439
  • FAN REACTION: +5/-2
  • British American Football Referees Association
Re: DPI or Holding ?
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2010, 07:35:26 PM »
I think there is a big difference between a PF and a hold.

I can understand that in the case of a PF that was also a DPI then the Rules Ctte would not want B to "get away with" a PF by making us enforce the DPI that may yield fewer yards to A.

Logged
Sorry Death, you lose! It was Professor Plum....

Offline Aussie-Zebra

  • *
  • Posts: 525
  • FAN REACTION: +8/-3
  • Australian Gridiron Officials Association
    • Gridironwest
Re: DPI or Holding ?
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2010, 07:50:56 PM »
I always thought a foul that wasn't UNC was a personal foul.
Logged
For every coach that thinks we got it wrong there's another that thinks we got it right.

Offline Kalle

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3310
  • FAN REACTION: +109/-35
Re: DPI or Holding ?
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2010, 01:49:12 AM »
Quote from: AussieZebra on March 18, 2010, 07:50:56 PM
I always thought a foul that wasn't UNC was a personal foul.

No, personal fouls are defined in rule 9-1-2: "Any act prohibited hereunder or any other act of unnecessary roughness is a personal foul."
Logged

seed

  • Guest
Re: DPI or Holding ?
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2010, 01:53:56 PM »
I observed the same scenario in a senior high game in which they called holding. Luckily I knew a couple of the guys on the crew who said b/c he grabbed the jersey before the ball was released/in the air it was holding. Had he grabbed the jersey after the ball was in the air it would have been DPI.
Logged

GoGoGo

  • Guest
Re: DPI or Holding ?
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2010, 08:45:28 AM »
So the ref was watching the QB instead of the receivers.

How would the ref know the ball was in the air or not?
Logged

Offline With_Two_Flakes

  • *
  • Posts: 439
  • FAN REACTION: +5/-2
  • British American Football Referees Association
Re: DPI or Holding ?
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2010, 10:32:22 PM »
If the official covering the receivers downfield was on a British game on my crew, he would certainly hear me shout "Ball Gone!" once the pass was in the air. The size of the crowds (three men and a dog) we get at British adult rec games don't make very much noise.....  ::)

I assume you guys in the US have to rely more on the 90% / 10% split I was taught at US clinics. 90% watching receivers, 10% glance back for the ball in the air.
Logged
Sorry Death, you lose! It was Professor Plum....

Offline James

  • *
  • Posts: 692
  • FAN REACTION: +7/-6
Re: DPI or Holding ?
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2010, 12:30:17 AM »
Where did the guy with the dog come from? Probably just out for a walk and wanted to see what all the noise was about.
Logged
Pages: [1]
« previous next »