Author Topic: A fouls A?  (Read 1526 times)

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Offline ilyazhito

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Re: A fouls A?
« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2021, 03:58:18 PM »
In soccer, fouls can only be committed against an opponent, but misconduct (including violent conduct) can be committed by anyone against anyone. Players have been sent off for attacking their own teammates.

While there is no specific provision to that effect in football, I would penalize, and, if necessary, send off players for unsportsmanlike conduct against their own team (including fighting), because their actions are unsportsmanlike and bring the game into disrepute. I would use the unfair acts rule to allow me to do this, because no rule currently addresses misconduct against a teammate.

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: A fouls A?
« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2021, 09:49:32 PM »
In soccer, fouls can only be committed against an opponent, but misconduct (including violent conduct) can be committed by anyone against anyone. Players have been sent off for attacking their own teammates.

While there is no specific provision to that effect in football, I would penalize, and, if necessary, send off players for unsportsmanlike conduct against their own team (including fighting), because their actions are unsportsmanlike and bring the game into disrepute. I would use the unfair acts rule to allow me to do this, because no rule currently addresses misconduct against a teammate.

Well you could manipulate a rule to apply to a specific situation, or you could recognize the abhorrent behavior as a 'family" matter, and bring it to the attention of
the family member in charge (Coach) to effectively deal with "his" problem and give that family member the benefit of the doubt, that he will take care of it.

If that should fail, or prove inadequate , you may have additional opportunity to make an appropriate adjustment, you will be prepared for.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2021, 09:51:47 PM by AlUpstateNY »

Offline Kalle

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Re: A fouls A?
« Reply #27 on: February 03, 2021, 12:18:12 AM »
While there is no specific provision to that effect in football, I would penalize, and, if necessary, send off players for unsportsmanlike conduct against their own team (including fighting), because their actions are unsportsmanlike and bring the game into disrepute. I would use the unfair acts rule to allow me to do this, because no rule currently addresses misconduct against a teammate.

Actually, the NCAA rules do have this: "No player...shall...engage in such acts that provoke ill will or are demeaning...to the image of the game." I'm not convinced that acts against a teammate are always excluded from that, although in the OP video I don't see an act that rises to that relatively high bar. But lets say that the player slapped retaliates and the two end up throwing punches until they are separated, and then continue to loudly verbally abuse each other until they are escorted out of the team area - isn't that demeaning to the image of the game?

Offline bossman72

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Re: A fouls A?
« Reply #28 on: February 03, 2021, 08:59:29 AM »
In soccer, fouls can only be committed against an opponent, but misconduct (including violent conduct) can be committed by anyone against anyone. Players have been sent off for attacking their own teammates.

While there is no specific provision to that effect in football, I would penalize, and, if necessary, send off players for unsportsmanlike conduct against their own team (including fighting), because their actions are unsportsmanlike and bring the game into disrepute. I would use the unfair acts rule to allow me to do this, because no rule currently addresses misconduct against a teammate.

Stay away from this.  It's none of your business to penalize intra-team drama.  Let them handle it.  It's a victimless crime.

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: A fouls A?
« Reply #29 on: February 03, 2021, 09:19:00 AM »
Actually, the NCAA rules do have this: "No player...shall...engage in such acts that provoke ill will or are demeaning...to the image of the game." I'm not convinced that acts against a teammate are always excluded from that, although in the OP video I don't see an act that rises to that relatively high bar. But lets say that the player slapped retaliates and the two end up throwing punches until they are separated, and then continue to loudly verbally abuse each other until they are escorted out of the team area - isn't that demeaning to the image of the game?

So is a coach screaming at / berating his players and assistants on the sideline, but we don't get involved with that. A bit more subjectively, multi-color and/or wild haircuts, excessive face hair, hair hanging out under a helmet, exposed tattoos, etc., IMHO, are exceptionally demeaning to the game, but we certainly don't get involved with those, either.

As much as we might want to be, we are neither social police, nor are we the parents of these people (at least I would hope none of us would be 1) working our own children's game, or 2) have a child that behaves so boorishly).

Can't speak for other organizations, but, for UIL football (Texas), if any TASO official observes some similar behavior, and he/she feels compelled to do something about it, by all means, feel free to note the time, and send an incident report to the UIL following the game (and hope that it shows up on video). That is not only the official process, but it is one that everyone with UIL and TASO highly endorse. Do not be reluctant to use this process.
But, otherwise, leave it alone on the field.

Online Legacy Zebra

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Re: A fouls A?
« Reply #30 on: February 03, 2021, 09:43:55 AM »
Quote
multi-color and/or wild haircuts, excessive face hair, hair hanging out under a helmet, exposed tattoos, etc.

Not to derail the thread too much, but there arenít enough eye roll or face palm emojis in the world to accurately describe my reaction to this take.

Offline JDM

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Re: A fouls A?
« Reply #31 on: February 03, 2021, 12:06:06 PM »
Stay away from this.  It's none of your business to penalize intra-team drama.  Let them handle it.  It's a victimless crime.

Not sure that offensive lineman will agree...    ;)

Offline JDM

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Re: A fouls A?
« Reply #32 on: February 03, 2021, 12:11:35 PM »
If a player punches another player in the face, they are opponents. :sTiR:


 LOL


Offline clearwall

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Re: A fouls A?
« Reply #33 on: February 05, 2021, 08:10:35 AM »
I agree, interpreting letter vs. spirit.  But - where's the rule support for sending players off the field to their coach, denying them the opportunity to participate for a down or two?  How is that any different than a formalized penalty (in spirit)?

I don't want to seem like I'm insulting your experience or ability here, so please don't take this reply in that way. However, the more you go through your career you learn that it's always better to NOT draw attention to yourself. When I went through baseball training, my VP told us "you're an umpire, trouble will FIND you." Do the rules explicitly say we can do that? No, absolutely not. Is it a really good way to do something quietly and not draw a ton of attention to us? Heck yeah. I mean, if a coach is going to get bent out of shape because I send a player off or refuse to take him out, I can't really do anything to argue it or enforce anything but I've never had that problem in my time as an official. Most of them understand what we're doing and why we're doing it.

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: A fouls A?
« Reply #34 on: February 05, 2021, 10:02:43 AM »
I agree, interpreting letter vs. spirit.  But - where's the rule support for sending players off the field to their coach, denying them the opportunity to participate for a down or two?  How is that any different than a formalized penalty (in spirit)?

If you feel "justification", in this situation is an absolute necessity, try this.  Bring the player to the Coach, and suggest; his behavior (striking a teammate in such a manner to garner your attention), is such a peculiar (excessive, stupid, etc., erratic) behavior, YOU are concerned he may have suffered some "blow to HIS  head", threatening a possible concussion. best to have him checked, AND take that opportunity to "calm him down and talk some sense to him" before deciding whether it's safe, or appropriate, for him to return to playing.

Sometimes common sense requires a little creativity, if and when necessary.

Offline CalhounLJ

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A fouls A?
« Reply #35 on: February 05, 2021, 10:12:33 AM »
I don't want to seem like I'm insulting your experience or ability here, so please don't take this reply in that way. However, the more you go through your career you learn that it's always better to NOT draw attention to yourself. When I went through baseball training, my VP told us "you're an umpire, trouble will FIND you." Do the rules explicitly say we can do that? No, absolutely not. Is it a really good way to do something quietly and not draw a ton of attention to us? Heck yeah. I mean, if a coach is going to get bent out of shape because I send a player off or refuse to take him out, I can't really do anything to argue it or enforce anything but I've never had that problem in my time as an official. Most of them understand what we're doing and why we're doing it.
Sending a player out is a tool to be used wisely and rarely. Agree with clearwall here.


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Online dammitbobby

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Re: A fouls A?
« Reply #36 on: February 05, 2021, 01:08:05 PM »
I don't want to seem like I'm insulting your experience or ability here, so please don't take this reply in that way. However, the more you go through your career you learn that it's always better to NOT draw attention to yourself. When I went through baseball training, my VP told us "you're an umpire, trouble will FIND you." Do the rules explicitly say we can do that? No, absolutely not. Is it a really good way to do something quietly and not draw a ton of attention to us? Heck yeah. I mean, if a coach is going to get bent out of shape because I send a player off or refuse to take him out, I can't really do anything to argue it or enforce anything but I've never had that problem in my time as an official. Most of them understand what we're doing and why we're doing it.

Didn't take it that way at all... I'm here to learn, and I appreciate and respect all the different perspectives on this topic (and may others.) 

Offline TxBJ

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Re: A fouls A?
« Reply #37 on: February 13, 2021, 11:20:56 AM »
I agree, interpreting letter vs. spirit.  But - where's the rule support for sending players off the field to their coach, denying them the opportunity to participate for a down or two?  How is that any different than a formalized penalty (in spirit)?

There is no rules support for sending a player off unless he is ejected or disqualified. This will get you in trouble with your boss quickly.