Chain Placement

[SBEII]

Runner reaches line to gain. After the play, deadball personal foul on A.

Set the chains for a 1st down and then walk off the 15 yards for a 1st and 25?

[HLinNC]

Nope.  Only way there is 1-25 now is if the DBF occurs after the RFP.

[SDR]

HLinNC is correct.  See Rule 5-3-1.

[blandis]

The Ready For Play, with a 40-second play clock, is when the Umpire, or another official, places the ball at the new spot and loves away. Only when a dead ball foul happens after that will it be a 1st and 25 scenario.

[Ralph Damren]

The tricky situation to remember is, when a team is in a hurry-up offense, the ball is snapped before the RFP on a new series. The DOG penalty would then require the chains to be reset after the mark off for 1st & 10. The umpire  should also be required to buy the first round for sleeping with his eyes open.

[bama_stripes]

Runner reaches line to gain. After the play, deadball personal foul on A.

Set the chains for a 1st down and then walk off the 15 yards for a 1st and 25?

This *used* to be correct.  I think it was changed as part of the 1996 revisions.

[HLinNC]

I think it was changed as part of the 1996 revisions.

I started in '94.  I believe it is newer than that.  I'll have to find my list.

[Ralph Damren]

This *used* to be correct.  I think it was changed as part of the 1996 revisions.

Very close, 'Bama, it was 1997  . Our annual meetings used to be "traveling road shows" back then and that year we met in the frozen tundra of Alaska. The temp was WAY below zero and with only 4 hours of sunlight, we may have had our most productive. Along with passing 5-3-1, we also passed the following:
 4-2-2k  Ball becomes dead if runner's hat comes off.
 6-5-6    K can touch airborne kick if no R player present.
 9-4-3    RTP tacked on to EOR if pass completed.
 9-4-5    RTS = auto 1st down.

We had to work hard to stay warm  , but the beer was cold 

[KWH]

Yo Ralph, you forgot one!
One of the decisions the 1997 Rules Committee made was:
They made Darkened Eye Shield's Illegal equipment!

[Ralph Damren]

Yo Ralph, you forgot one!
One of the decisions the 1997 Rules Committee made was:
They made Darkened Eye Shield's Illegal equipment!

I think I was out tending to my frostbitten hands when that was discussed  . Jet-lag from Bangor, Maine to Anchorage, Alaska and back took me several days to recover.....but the Beer in Maine was cold,too .

PS : I think we also did something about the size of numbers on a jersey , or something there such 

[HLinNC]

1998 Prohibit the use of eye shields with less than 100% allowable light transmission.

Handy resource here on rule changes- https://www.nfhs.org/media/1017463/1982-2016_nfhs_risk_minimization_rules.pdf

[Ralph Damren]

1998 Prohibit the use of eye shields with less than 100% allowable light transmission.

Handy resource here on rule changes- https://www.nfhs.org/media/1017463/1982-2016_nfhs_risk_minimization_rules.pdf

I didn't know of this, HLinNC, thanks . You might enjoy the NFHS Football Handbook that is published in the year the Officials' Manual is not.

[HLinNC]

the NFHS Football Handbook

NC quit providing that one to us some time ago.  We also don't get the "funny book" anymore either.  I think they were looking to cut costs and if we wanted them we can buy them ourselves.

[refjeff]

The tricky situation to remember is, when a team is in a hurry-up offense, (if) the ball is snapped before the RFP on a new series. The DOG penalty ...) 

We have received contradictory instructions on this.  Previously we were told not to flag for DOG and play on.  Just last week we we told to penalize, and if 3.4.6 applied, to chop and wind.

Does anybody know if this is a national change or just in our state?

[NVFOA_Ump]

Our guidance here has been very clear that whoever places the ball down (R or U) shall stay with the ball until the chains are set and tell the snapper not to snap the ball until the RFP.  That avoids the problem 99% of the time.

But this does raise an interesting question since technically when the R winds after a new series has been achieved by team A that's the RFP.  We have multiple R's whose mechanics are almost identical:

1.  Turn toward the booth and give the stop the clock signal
2.  Give the 1st down signal for team A
3.  Wind the game clock, regardless of where the ball and the box/chains are at the time

That happens in about the time it took to read the 3 steps above.  Have had several coaches complain about the "mechanic" in that "if the ball is RFP then why can't we snap it"?  How is this handled by other states/crews?  Any "standard" suggested mechanics here?

[Ralph Damren]

IMHO...
 (1) U should stand over ball until R cranks the clock;
 (2) R should not crank until DMG (downs-marker-guy [gender neutral]) is set;
 (3) DMG should hustle.

IF ball is snapped with U still over ball =DOG + 3-4-6 (start clock on ready)

PRE LUNCH QUESTION : When we give the start the clock signal, should be pretend that we are outside of the Clock looking in or inside of the clock looking out  (5-man crew) I had a new official ask me that once  .

[bama_stripes]

IMHO...
 (1) U should stand over ball until R cranks the clock;
 (2) R should not crank until DMG (downs-marker-guy [gender neutral]) is set;
 (3) DMG should hustle.

IF ball is snapped with U still over ball =DOG + 3-4-6 (start clock on ready)

PRE LUNCH QUESTION : When we give the start the clock signal, should be pretend that we are outside of the Clock looking in or inside of the clock looking out  (5-man crew) I had a new official ask me that once 

I’m with you, Ralph.  I will hold my wind a second or two longer if we had a long gainer, to give the chains a fair chance.

[peterparsons]

Our guidance here has been very clear that whoever places the ball down (R or U) shall stay with the ball until the chains are set and tell the snapper not to snap the ball until the RFP.  That avoids the problem 99% of the time.

But this does raise an interesting question since technically when the R winds after a new series has been achieved by team A that's the RFP.  We have multiple R's whose mechanics are almost identical:

1.  Turn toward the booth and give the stop the clock signal
2.  Give the 1st down signal for team A
3.  Wind the game clock, regardless of where the ball and the box/chains are at the time

That happens in about the time it took to read the 3 steps above.  Have had several coaches complain about the "mechanic" in that "if the ball is RFP then why can't we snap it"?  How is this handled by other states/crews?  Any "standard" suggested mechanics here?

Serious question - What do they do at the end of a half if there are only a few seconds left? Do they wind it and let the clock run out, thus denying A one last play? Would they do that at the end of the 4th in a close or tied game?

[Ralph Damren]

Serious question - What do they do at the end of a half if there are only a few seconds left? Do they wind it and let the clock run out, thus denying A one last play? Would they do that at the end of the 4th in a close or tied game?

The offense should be up to the line and ready to snap as soon as the white hat cranks the clock. Good coaching is responsible for that to happen. In a 5-man crew, the LJ has responsibility for the game clock and should have at least one eye on the clock to insure it starts properly in situations such as yours.

[peterparsons]

The offense should be up to the line and ready to snap as soon as the white hat cranks the clock. Good coaching is responsible for that to happen. In a 5-man crew, the LJ has responsibility for the game clock and should have at least one eye on the clock to insure it starts properly in situations such as yours.

Sure the offense can be ready, but if, as mentioned by NVFOA_Ump in point 3, there is no ball anywhere near when R winds, what are they going to snap?

Hence my question. Do these Rs change their routine in this situation so they don't wind the clock and run the last few seconds of the half off the clock before the offense even has a chance to run a play?

[CalhounLJ]

Sure the offense can be ready, but if, as mentioned by NVFOA_Ump in point 3, there is no ball anywhere near when R winds, what are they going to snap?

Hence my question. Do these Rs change their routine in this situation so they don't wind the clock and run the last few seconds of the half off the clock before the offense even has a chance to run a play?

In my case, I don't wait for the chain crew, but I do wait for my umpire to put the ball down. When there's a first down, I stop the clock and watch my U. When he has the ball and puts it down, I wind the clock. If A is ready, they can snap it. If not, time is going to run out. I'm not giving them extra time. So, to answer your question, No. It's not up to the officials to change the game to benefit the offense.

IMO, the new system was installed for this very purpose, to keep the game consistent and not give added time at certain points in the game that benefit one team over the other.

[peterparsons]

In my case, I don't wait for the chain crew, but I do wait for my umpire to put the ball down. When there's a first down, I stop the clock and watch my U. When he has the ball and puts it down, I wind the clock. If A is ready, they can snap it. If not, time is going to run out. I'm not giving them extra time. So, to answer your question, No. It's not up to the officials to change the game to benefit the offense.

IMO, the new system was installed for this very purpose, to keep the game consistent and not give added time at certain points in the game that benefit one team over the other.

I've no problem with winding it once the ball is there, my question is about those who are winding it with no ball available for play.

[Ralph Damren]

IMHO, both the ball and downs marker should be in place prior to the silent wind. In rare situations ,if the play clock is under 25"without ball and marker in place, it should be re-set to 25", R's duty if visible play clock (ain't none in Maine) BJ duty if play clock is kept on field. Signal by one open hand pumping towards sky.

[ncwingman]

IMHO, both the ball and downs marker should be in place prior to the silent wind. In rare situations ,if the play clock is under 25"without ball and marker in place, it should be re-set to 25", R's duty if visible play clock (ain't none in Maine) BJ duty if play clock is kept on field. Signal by one open hand pumping towards sky.

I believe this is in the mechanics manual, but it's at least what we've been told here -- if you have to reset the play clock, you should a) stop all clocks (S3), b) reset the play clock (S17), c) restart the clocks (S2).

This is probably necessary in a lot of cases because the PCO isn't paying attention whatsoever, so a silent S17 would go unnoticed and whistle/stopping the game clock makes it obvious. But if you have a good PCO that is paying attention, would you go through the whole rigmarole?

[bossman72]

IMHO, both the ball and downs marker should be in place prior to the silent wind. In rare situations ,if the play clock is under 25"without ball and marker in place, it should be re-set to 25", R's duty if visible play clock (ain't none in Maine) BJ duty if play clock is kept on field. Signal by one open hand pumping towards sky.

In the interest of game management, I don't think this is wise.  You can start winding the clock whenever you want because the 40 sec clock doesn't depend on when you crank the clock like it used to.  Starting the clock early on first downs in bounds can shave some valuable minutes off of your game time.  Obviously in a 2 minute drill, slow it down until the ball is spotted.