Author Topic: NCHSAA Officials Survey results  (Read 412 times)

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Offline HLinNC

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NCHSAA Officials Survey results
« on: December 01, 2022, 09:13:51 AM »
 All NC HS sports officials were asked to take a survey this summer.  The comprehensive report was submitted to the state Board of Directors for their winter meeting this week.  One result has already occurred.  All NC sports officials will receive a 10% game fee raise effective in January.

Here is the report that was submitted.
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/latest-news/article269336982.ece/BINARY/NCHSAA%20Officiating%20Executive%20Summary%20and%20Recommendations%20%20FINAL.pdf

Offline ilyazhito

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Re: NCHSAA Officials Survey results
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2022, 12:00:25 PM »
This is awesome! It is great to see that they will start getting paid more. I also appreciate the recommendation that "Officials should be paid within one business day of rendering services". I hate waiting to be paid in November, or worse, December, for a game that I worked in September. Most people's day jobs pay them at least monthly, if not every other week or weekly. As officiating is seasonal and irregular (I might have a week with one or no games followed by a week with games every day or almost every day), it makes sense to pay officials close to game time.

Offline Covid 22

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Re: NCHSAA Officials Survey results
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2022, 01:17:06 PM »
A very well researched, thought out, written and informative report.  The only thing I saw in there that really surprised me was that a 6% to 8% response rate would give a statistically accurate representation.  In general, it reflects well on the feelings of guys I have called with the last ten years of my career.   Two things that are a little surprising:
1) That guys want to be paid within one day of calling a contest.  With cancelations, mileage, and other variables getting paid that quick would seem to be a problem (especially in Texas where gate receipts come into play).   When I started in Mississippi, we were paid before we left the game, usually at halftime but that was a set fee for every game.  Two weeks seems more reasonable.
2) The comments by Fitch.  Not having called 5 of the seven TASO sports, I was surprised that he considered soccer fans as the most trouble.   In my experience, the worst for both players and fans is girls basketball. 

Anyway kudos to NC for this report. 

Offline ncwingman

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Re: NCHSAA Officials Survey results
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2022, 01:57:36 PM »
1) That guys want to be paid within one day of calling a contest.  With cancelations, mileage, and other variables getting paid that quick would seem to be a problem (especially in Texas where gate receipts come into play).   When I started in Mississippi, we were paid before we left the game, usually at halftime but that was a set fee for every game.  Two weeks seems more reasonable.

I think Texas is unique with gate receipts, but seeing as NC doesn't pay mileage either, there's really no reason why we shouldn't be getting paid at the game. When I started out, I got a paper check usually upon arrival to the field (the AD could have waited until halftime, but most preferred to do it early and not forget about it later). Since technology has come into play, the online funds now usually don't get released until the following Monday (especially for a Friday night game) and sometimes it was a week or two before that happened. If it's just hitting a button on a computer, there's no reason for that sort of delay. If they could get their act together to cut a check on time before, why can't they pay on arbiter or dragonfly in the same time frame?

Anyway, that's really not the biggest concern out of the lot. However, it is indicative of a lack of respect towards officials as a whole -- there are many times that I show up to a game and nobody is there to greet me, or direct me to where I should park, or show me where the locker room is... during the game, it's become rare to even get a bottle of water at halftime. I'm not expecting the red carpet treatment, but it's evident that the officials are not a priority for the schools and they aren't putting any effort into any sort of welcoming or hospitality. The attitude of "sure, we'll pay you, eventually..." is just another aspect of that attitude.

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: NCHSAA Officials Survey results
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2022, 02:18:09 PM »
I'd bet at least 70% of all the games in Texas in a given week don't pay out of Band 1.  I'd be curious to know if TASO keeps stats around that (I bet they don't.)   

Pretty sure I know officials who have worked 5A games and still got the minimum.

Online JasonTX

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Re: NCHSAA Officials Survey results
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2022, 02:31:44 PM »
I'd bet at least 70% of all the games in Texas in a given week don't pay out of Band 1.  I'd be curious to know if TASO keeps stats around that (I bet they don't.)   

Pretty sure I know officials who have worked 5A games and still got the minimum.

You are correct.  I have seen some sixman games pay more than a sold out 4A and 5A games.

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: NCHSAA Officials Survey results
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2022, 03:04:44 PM »
A very well researched, thought out, written and informative report.  The only thing I saw in there that really surprised me was that a 6% to 8% response rate would give a statistically accurate representation.  In general, it reflects well on the feelings of guys I have called with the last ten years of my career.   Two things that are a little surprising:
1) That guys want to be paid within one day of calling a contest.  With cancelations, mileage, and other variables getting paid that quick would seem to be a problem (especially in Texas where gate receipts come into play).   When I started in Mississippi, we were paid before we left the game, usually at halftime but that was a set fee for every game.  Two weeks seems more reasonable.
2) The comments by Fitch.  Not having called 5 of the seven TASO sports, I was surprised that he considered soccer fans as the most trouble.   In my experience, the worst for both players and fans is girls basketball. 

Anyway kudos to NC for this report.

Where did you find his comments, I'd be curious to read them.

Online JasonTX

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Re: NCHSAA Officials Survey results
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2022, 06:06:01 PM »
Where did you find his comments, I'd be curious to read them.

Click the links on page 11 of the attachment.

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: NCHSAA Officials Survey results
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2022, 08:42:56 PM »
Thanks!

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: NCHSAA Officials Survey results
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2022, 08:02:41 AM »
Ah ,but the days of old  8]. When I first started (1969) our checks would be waiting for us at the game yEs: with the AD the messenger. Today the AD still greets us, but with a W-9 tax form  :(.  Our checks show up after a week or two, which is fine with me as I just throw them into a bowl , cash them after season end and buy Mrs. Damren a gift for putting up with my Friday night absences during the season. I do understand the plight of many who desire their checks promptly. I've inquired from some ADs and have recieved a couple of weak answers :

(1) The IRS makes us hold their W-9s before they get their checks.... Our chapter serves 19 schools and two still do it the ole' fashion way. Their ADs have filed W-9s for the officials and trade a check for a completed W-9 for the new ones.  hEaDbAnG

(2) The school district earns interest on the funds until paid out....simple math: $100 @ 2% interest = $ 0.16 earned in 1 month - $0.50 stamp, oh I see  hEaDbAnG hEaDbAnG

I believe a major problem in retaining new officials can be blamed on this high tect world of ours. ::) If we blew a call in days of yesteryear, it might be discussed a day or two later over the pickle barrel  pi1eOn. Today most fans have cell phones  :puke: Most cell phones can take pictures  :puke: most pictures can be sent to all interested fans  :puke: = the BOO's arrive much quicker.  pi1eOn
A newie may quickly decide that being a greeter at WalMart would be more enjoyabe :!#.

On a personal note, tjhe Bills blowing out the Pats out last night,IMHO, ended the Patriot season.....OH...BUT... OUR Celtics  (17-4) lead the NBA  aWaRd ; OUR Bruins (19-3) lead the NHL  aWaRd ...those BOSTON Patriots can be forgotten (there's probably a little 'fair weather' fan in many of us)....

and TEAM USA VS NETHERLANDS IN THE OTHER FOOTBALL'S SUPER BOWL  aWaRd

 FlAg1 FlAg1 FlAg1 FlAg1 FlAg1 FlAg1 FlAg1 FlAg1 FlAg1 FlAg1 FlAg1 aWaRd
« Last Edit: December 02, 2022, 08:07:21 AM by Ralph Damren »

Offline JBall

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Re: NCHSAA Officials Survey results
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2022, 02:52:34 PM »
You are correct.  I have seen some sixman games pay more than a sold out 4A and 5A games.

I have not questioned many of my checks but schools are public and would be open to a "freedom of information request"  if I ever wanted to challenge a check this is how I would do it.  How many officials would scratch a school intentionally under paying officials.

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: NCHSAA Officials Survey results
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2022, 02:58:19 PM »
I have not questioned many of my checks but schools are public and would be open to a "freedom of information request"  if I ever wanted to challenge a check this is how I would do it.  How many officials would scratch a school intentionally under paying officials.

Depends on if the likelihood of them making the playoffs and selected for a game. 

This may one avenue of expansion in future years of doing the spreadsheet; since all officials are paid the same (unless we get into mileage for driver?) I may throw out there that if someone thinks they were underpaid, just send me the game date and what the pay was per official and I'd be happy to file the request, on my behalf under FOIA, (not the crews') so they don't get a black eye with the coaches cabal.

Offline JBall

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Re: NCHSAA Officials Survey results
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2022, 05:44:48 PM »
Depends on if the likelihood of them making the playoffs and selected for a game. 

This may one avenue of expansion in future years of doing the spreadsheet; since all officials are paid the same (unless we get into mileage for driver?) I may throw out there that if someone thinks they were underpaid, just send me the game date and what the pay was per official and I'd be happy to file the request, on my behalf under FOIA, (not the crews') so they don't get a black eye with the coaches cabal.

I would add if I  ever went this route I would not request just 1 weeks info.  I would request season info.  1 week can be a miscalculation or an oversight.  Multiple occurrences is gross negligence or willful intent territory. 

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: NCHSAA Officials Survey results
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2022, 06:53:04 PM »
Definitely!