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Football Officiating => General Discussion => Topic started by: freezer on October 31, 2013, 11:46:39 AM
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A2 executes a violent, needless block well behind a run by A1 for a TD such that it draw a flag. What is the correct enforcement spot? Treat it as a dead ball, unsportmanship, as it had no effect on the TD run or personal foul and no TD with the penalty marked off from the spot?
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Depends on when it happens. If it is anywhere near the end of the play, then call it a dead ball foul. Let the TD stand and enforce as a DB foul. This does not sound like the kind of foul that would be made an unsportsmanlike foul. Simple DBPF. If it is far from the end of the down then you are stuck making it a live ball foul and erasing the score.
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NFHS: this cannot be UNS, as it involved contact. It is a PF for UNR.
The basic spot is the end of the run, which is the GL. The enforcement spot depends on whether it is live-ball or dead-ball. If live-ball, we apply ABO: a foul by the offense behind the basic spot is enforced from the spot of the foul. If dead-ball, the basic spot is the succeeding spot. (This seems to be your main question.)
If live-ball, no score, go back 15 from the spot of the foul, assess whether that's sufficient for a first down and otherwise replay the down, clock on the snap. If dead-ball, the score counts, B can choose to enforce the 15 yard penalty on the try or the kickoff.
As TXMike suggests, this should be ruled a DB/PF unless it is abundantly evident that the runner had not yet scored when the foul took place (say, the runner was still well outside the 10 YL). When in doubt, the score counts.
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I had this on my last game this year.
Ball carrier was off and about 40 yards away and I see an OLiner take a dive into the knee of a Linebacker that is walking towards the EZ. Look over to status of the ball - still at the 20 - so they are coming back.
OLiner tells me he slipped, but the motion was so obviously aim, fold up, launch at knee...
When the coaches complained and I explained what I saw they were (in my experience) surprisingly calm about everything. Usually they don't accept that anything we say is true, but these took it well and just set up the next play.
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I had this on my last game this year.
Ball carrier was off and about 40 yards away and I see an OLiner take a dive into the knee of a Linebacker that is walking towards the EZ. Look over to status of the ball - still at the 20 - so they are coming back.
My opinion is that cheap shots like these by the scoring team should always be penalized as live ball fouls, even if they happen immediately after the score. These are not football, these are criminal acts (assault), and should carry a harsh penalty.
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My opinion is that cheap shots like these by the scoring team should always be penalized as live ball fouls, even if they happen immediately after the score. These are not football, these are criminal acts (assault), and should carry a harsh penalty.
I have two thoughts relevant to your concern, which I share:
1. I have been taught to err on the side of a DB foul so as not to punish an entire team for the idiocy of one player. That's a "when in doubt" philosophy: if the runner is still on the 20, obviously it's still live-ball.
2. If the act is so egregious — not just routine "blowing up" but an obvious intent to injure — we always have the option to rule the foul flagrant. Match the punishment to the crime.
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If he is not in the end zone yet, you need to make this a live ball foul and bring it back. You can either score a touchdown or be a d*ck. Not both.
Now if it's after he scored, by rule we have to make it dead ball.
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1. I have been taught to err on the side of a DB foul so as not to punish an entire team for the idiocy of one player. That's a "when in doubt" philosophy: if the runner is still on the 20, obviously it's still live-ball.
I know that this is the philosophy. I just said that I don't agree with it.
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If he is not in the end zone yet, you need to make this a live ball foul and bring it back. You can either score a touchdown or be a JERK. Not both. Now if it's after he scored, by rule we have to make it dead ball.
I agree with your logic, although the severity of the contact is a factor that may affect my judging live ball, or dead ball.
For those concerned about explaining the nuances of the call to the offended coach, you might consider referring to the contact simply as a "cheap shot", rather than going through a detailed explanation of the rule, THAT THE COACH IS NOT INTERESTED IN HEARING. If he doesn't already understand the consequences related to a Cheap Shot, it's doubtful you're going to be able to explain it.
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For those concerned about explaining the nuances of the call to the offended coach, you might consider referring to the contact simply as a "cheap shot", rather than going through a detailed explanation of the rule, THAT THE COACH IS NOT INTERESTED IN HEARING. If he doesn't already understand the consequences related to a Cheap Shot, it's doubtful you're going to be able to explain it.
"Coach, he went headhunting 25 yards behind the play."
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"Coach, he went headhunting 25 yards behind the play."
^ that's gotten many a coach off my back.