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Football Officiating => NCAA Discussion => Topic started by: BoBo on November 30, 2013, 03:05:52 PM
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Watching a D-III playoff game today on line Bethel vs Wartburg. Wartburg scores a TD with 12:38 left in the 4th quarter, Wartburg 20 Bethel 17. Bethel blocks the PAT and returns it for a score. The officials huddle and announce the score is now Wartburg 20 Bethel 18. (oops)
At 9:37 Bethel scores TD and successful 2 point conversion. and scoreboard shows Bethel 26 Wartburg 20
At 6:13 left in the 4th quarter the man on the public address speaker makes an announcement that the score should be Bethel 27 Wartburg 20 and the score is changed.
I agree the score is now the correct score but 6:00 mins have gone off the game clock and strategies have been played out for that period of time. When can you fix and how long do you have to fix an issue like this.
Final score was Bethel 34- Wartburg 27 with Wartburg having a play on the Bethel 13 on the last play of the game.
What if Bethel misses 2 point conversion back at the 9:37 mark and the score was 24-20??
They score and kick 31-20?? Wartburg scores 31-27 or if they go for two and its 31-29??
Lots of what ifs I know, but I find it weird that all of sudden you can throw one point up on the scoreboard. Wartburg play calling and strategies change in a hurry.
What are other's thoughts??
I assume the change came from a phone call from someone at the NCAA office. Would love to hear the real story
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This is an interesting question. I don't remember the rule book saying anything about the scoreboard, so that is not an official score. The official score is whatever the referee rules it to be. If nobody asked him, then there is still the problem that usually the scoreboard does reflect the official score, and it should have been corrected much earlier.
But, in this case the referee ruled that the PAT touchdown by Bethel was worth one point. In my opinion that is a rule decision and it cannot be changed after the ball has been next put in play (legally). It should have been challenged (successfully, I hope) by Bethel before the free kick. Even if you get a call from RR during a timeout, you cannot invent new rules to "fix" your screwup.
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I agree it will be interesting what discussion comes of it
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Agree that there is no rule that covers it, which gives Referee full authority to rule.
In that situation, I would use the basketball rule. In basketball, a correction to the score can be made at ANY time. I would agree that should be used here as well. The score is the score, whether it was announced incorrectly or not.
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This is a similar discussion to one we had earlier this year when a Tx HS crew allowed a 1 point conversion in the 3d Extra Period. My stance has always been that point did not count, regardless of what scoreboard showed. In the HS game the other team then scored a TD and went for 2 (as they should have). They failed and everyone left the field believing the team that kicked the EP won.
(And for a playoff crew of 7 guys not to know this ? ? ? Sounds like that may be a conference that dos not see another playoff game for awhile)
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My issue is for a good 6:00 minutes of the 4th quarter the coaches/teams planned strategy for the score they saw on the board, if the correct score was up there would they have called different plays, made different decisions?? I feel they did,
My view is if the ref said that was the official score via mic then they have to live it and it is what it is. A one point td return of an unsuccessful pat.
Sounds harsh but it what it is.
Just my opinion
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Having a hard time seeing the "they would have run different plays argument" You are not being a homer are you BoBo ? ;D
If 2 points had been awarded initially, score would have been 20-19. The next TD would have made it 25 - 20. I am pretty sure with a 5 point lead the team is still going to attempt a 2 point conversion. That would have made it 27 - 20. Whether it was 26 - 20 or 27 - 20, Wartburg knew they had to have a TD (which they eventually did get) and would run plays to get that. How would either team have played different if score had been at the 12:38 mark?
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Not a homer in any way. Watched the game because Wartburg is a team in the conference I work.
My comments on different strategies may not be directly affiliated to this game but any game where this may happen. Say the team behind is down 3 late in the game and playing for a fg then poof they change the score and make it 4 points.
That would be one example of my concern.
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Can definitely see that potential problem. Luckily it had no bearing here but not a good moment for these 7 stripes to be sure
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In general, I think the mindset of today's NCAA football rules makers is to "get it right" .... provided a correction can be accomplished without an arduous, or in a grossly unfair, manner.
Perhaps 1-1-3 supports the late change is score. It reads,
ARTICLE 3. a. The teams shall be awarded points for scoring according to rule and, unless the game is forfeited, the team having the larger score at the end of the game shall be the winning team.
b. When the referee declares that the game is ended, the score is final.
Note, 1-1-3-b states that the score is not final until the game is over. That implies the score can be changed during the game in order to correct an error.
(And for a playoff crew of 7 guys not to know this ? ? ?
Agree!!
How could 7 NCAA officials make this mistake? Surely, at least one member of the crew must have had the correct ruling. Were there other issues associated with the play which could have added confusion? How many points would the crew award to Wartburg if Wartburg would have recovered the blocked PAT-FG attempt and carried the ball across Bethel's goalline?