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Football Officiating => General Discussion => Topic started by: Etref on December 04, 2013, 02:00:44 PM

Title: Sidelines and coaches
Post by: Etref on December 04, 2013, 02:00:44 PM
High school coaches think we nit pick about sidelines.............................

Appears the NFL is much more stringent, the fined the Steelers coach $100k for being on the field/in the white during a play.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10077849/mike-tomlin-fined-100k-pittsburgh-steelers-face-loss-picks
Title: Re: Sidelines and coaches
Post by: tbarnes13 on December 04, 2013, 02:45:02 PM
I very nicely tell these same coaches to watch a game on Sat or Sun, and see how many guys are in the restricted area...

The view of the game is apparently 100% better if they are 6' closer.  hEaDbAnG
Title: Re: Sidelines and coaches
Post by: TampaSteve on December 04, 2013, 02:59:49 PM
"Give me room Coaches.  If I run into you, it will be ugly."
Title: Re: Sidelines and coaches
Post by: maven on December 04, 2013, 03:16:09 PM
"Give me room Coaches.  If I run into you, it will be ugly."

Recommend not threatening. "Coach, back up, please." :)
Title: Re: Sidelines and coaches
Post by: Wingmanbp on December 04, 2013, 03:21:41 PM
I just say " Do you feel Lucky, PUNK?"  ;D
Title: Re: Sidelines and coaches
Post by: Legacy Zebra on December 04, 2013, 03:27:28 PM
While this can serve as a good warning, it would help even more if they would have actually flagged it on the field. This last Sunday I was working a youth league and dropped my flag when I had to weave through a group of coaches. After I told them what the flag was for the head coach says, "They didn't flag Mike Tomlin for it, but we're flagging it in a 9 year old game? That's bull ****!"
Title: Re: Sidelines and coaches
Post by: Rulesman on December 04, 2013, 03:34:38 PM
I hope you honored him with a second yellow hankie.  ^flag
Title: Re: Sidelines and coaches
Post by: Rulesman on December 04, 2013, 03:35:17 PM
I just say " Do you feel Lucky, PUNK?"  ;D
How about "Go ahead, make my day!"  ;D
Title: Re: Sidelines and coaches
Post by: Legacy Zebra on December 04, 2013, 03:41:12 PM
I sure did. He didn't need an explanation for that one.
Title: Re: Sidelines and coaches
Post by: bama_stripes on December 04, 2013, 04:36:04 PM
"They didn't flag Mike Tomlin for it, but we're flagging it in a 9 year old game? That's bull ****!"

"Thanks, Coach.  Make your check payable to __________"
Title: Re: Sidelines and coaches
Post by: Wingmanbp on December 04, 2013, 04:45:20 PM
How about "Go ahead, make my day!"  ;D
Lol But I think we are showing our age!  :)
Title: Re: Sidelines and coaches
Post by: Arbitrator on December 04, 2013, 05:21:40 PM
 ^flag

If they're in his "white" my LJ simply scouts'em out then runs'em down ... all followed by the proverbial yellow rag! And then I'll have an irate head coach call me over to say that my LJ ran him down in "his white." To which I'll have to reply to him, "Coach, as long as my LJ is on this field, the white belongs to him!"   z^
Title: Re: Sidelines and coaches
Post by: HLinNC on December 04, 2013, 05:38:53 PM
While the threat of losing a draft pick apparently looms, which I think is a bit overkill in the Tomlin situation, I have no problem with him being suspended for a game, which I feel is a reasonable punishment.  He knew what he was doing, IMO
Title: Re: Sidelines and coaches
Post by: AlUpstateNY on December 04, 2013, 05:56:33 PM
  He knew what he was doing, IMO

I wouldn't challenge your assessment, but Tomlin didn't hedge, or fudge accepting responsibility for his mistake.  His apology was sincere, his punishment considerable and little can be gained by "piling on" in Administrative matters either.
Title: Re: Sidelines and coaches
Post by: Ralph Damren on December 05, 2013, 08:02:03 AM
How about "Go ahead, make my day!"  ;D
Or how about : "You're wondering, coach, 'Does he have any flags left in his pocket ???'. If you feel lucky, you should know my bean bag, hat and  sNiCkErS also can surfice >:D." On the second thought, that sentence may be too long for a coach to understand (and the line coach may eat my sNiCkErS!!! :)
Title: Re: Sidelines and coaches
Post by: TampaSteve on December 05, 2013, 10:20:54 AM
Recommend not threatening. "Coach, back up, please." :)
I'm not saying if I run into you it will be ugly - as in a flag.
I'm saying,  if I run into you, and it will be an ugly collision for you coach.
I'm 6'2", 260# at present (ok, ok, should be 230 - too many snickers)
Title: Re: Sidelines and coaches
Post by: maven on December 05, 2013, 01:31:07 PM
I'm not saying if I run into you it will be ugly - as in a flag.
I'm saying,  if I run into you, and it will be an ugly collision for you coach.
I'm 6'2", 260# at present (ok, ok, should be 230 - too many snickers)

Gotcha!

But: that COULD still be interpreted as a threat ("I'm gonna cream you if you give me half a chance, coach!"). Might not be what you intended, but possible from an aggrieved coach with an ax to grind.

I always recommend just asking him politely to move back. ;)
Title: Re: Sidelines and coaches
Post by: StudyingFutureZebra on December 06, 2013, 11:49:40 AM
Can I ask what the Snicker's reference is about? I've wondered that since I got here.
Title: Re: Sidelines and coaches
Post by: maven on December 06, 2013, 12:01:35 PM
Can I ask what the Snicker's reference is about? I've wondered that since I got here.

Umpires are usually big men who like Snickers®.
Title: Re: Sidelines and coaches
Post by: VALJ on December 06, 2013, 01:05:19 PM
Everybody likes  sNiCkErS.  Umpires just tend to eat more of them than anyone else on the crew.  :)
Title: Re: Sidelines and coaches
Post by: maven on December 06, 2013, 01:54:55 PM
Get some nuts.
Title: Re: Sidelines and coaches
Post by: HLinNC on December 06, 2013, 08:02:41 PM
Which is still why I think the Big 12 should have named their 8th man the Snickeree.


 P_S = (http://mobile-cuisine.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/doughnut.jpg)



(http://seattletimes.com/ABPub/2008/10/21/2008294831.jpg) =  sNiCkErS

Title: Re: Sidelines and coaches
Post by: DaBigStiller on December 27, 2013, 11:03:40 AM
This was an issue all season long for me.  As the line judge I tried to communicate my request to run the sideline politely, professionally, and persistently so I would not have to call a penalty but nothing seemed to work. A pinnacle was reached on a picture perfect Saturday pee wee game day.  My first request to keep the sideline open was met with "Well, it's ok on Friday night."  My second request was greeted with "Sorry, Sorry, I was having flashbacks."  The offense moves the ball to the red zone. I hear this gentleman behind me yelling instruction to the offense.  I turn around and say sir you are going to have to move inside the 25 yard line you can't stand here.  He folds his arms and yells sarcastically to other coaches standing just a few yards next to him, "Yeah, you're gonna have to move inside the 25."  I turn around again and he's still standing there peering on to the field.  I throw a flag.  He yells to me "Do you know who I am?" I am thinking I don't care if you're the President of the United States.  Instead I say "Sir, I asked you nicely to move inside the 25 and you made a joke out of it."  Found out later he was the Offensive Coordinator and "Get Back" coach for the High School.  White Hat warned me to be careful who I flag.  Then it happened.  The HC is upset his team is getting man-handled.  He is swearing at his kids.  At one point he yokes up his 12 yr old LB and after getting in his face the LB returns to the field screaming like he's gonna kill someone.  I guess it worked...just not an approved method. Well, there is a long pass play and I have to get on my horse.  I weigh about 220 and the HC is muscular and about 230.  As I begin to run I sink my hips (Thanks Coach) and dip my shoulder then BOOM I hit something....somebody.  I follow the play and turn back to see the HC flying.  He must have moved 10 yards. I am thinking did I do that?  I flagged him and thought this guy is going to start screaming at me (again) and this time try to throw a punch.  Amazingly, he accepts his medicine without complaint and shortly thereafter calls a time out with under 2 mins to go. During the time out, he asks can he talk to the White Hat.  I say ok.  Big mistake.  He walks out to the White Hat who is holding a football during this timeout. I follow slightly behind him as I am jotting a note about time outs remaining. I hear him say why are you always calling penalties on us then I hear splat, splat.  I look up and see the football flying.  The Head Linesman yells that's assault.  I look and the White Hat has no hat, his whistle is busted and his cheek is bright red.  The White Hat ends the game immediately and the HC goes back to his sideline.  As we're walking off several game administrators rush in asking for an explanation.  We point out the HC and they move in.  The HC is very apologetic and asks if he can say so to the White Hat.  He is told that is not a good idea right now and we exit the stadium.  The HC was kicked out of the league. Sidelines officials sometimes need a hard hat.
Title: Re: Sidelines and coaches
Post by: Welpe on December 27, 2013, 11:16:03 AM
Did the HTC throw a punch? If so, at what point was the police called?
Title: Re: Sidelines and coaches
Post by: ljudge on December 29, 2013, 12:08:38 PM
One technique that works is to get the coaches on YOUR side.  I tried this once in a college game and the reaction was something I never expected.  "Guys, your coaches need room to work can you please get back so they can do their jobs???"  The reply was something like "yeah, we need room to work get the f*** out of the way NOW!"  It worked perfect.   nAnA
Title: Re: Sidelines and coaches
Post by: mishatx on December 30, 2013, 01:26:51 AM
One technique that works is to get the coaches on YOUR side.  I tried this once in a college game and the reaction was something I never expected.  "Guys, your coaches need room to work can you please get back so they can do their jobs???"  The reply was something like "yeah, we need room to work get the f*** out of the way NOW!"  It worked perfect.   nAnA

I find when I try this at lower levels it often ends up with coaches concerned about keeping the kids on the track but still all pissy about being told to stay off the field (never mind the white) during play.
Title: Re: Sidelines and coaches
Post by: blindref757 on December 30, 2013, 07:38:26 AM
I was shocked and very proud when the crew working Allen vs Pearland in the TX 5A state game flagged Pearland for not being off the white.  If they have the stones to call it in front of 54K, you should have the stones to call it anywhere in the state.  If you want the white, you must demand it.  It only has to be a war if the coaching staff turns it into one.
Title: Re: Sidelines and coaches
Post by: yarnnelg on December 30, 2013, 07:41:33 PM
As a wing I always have a discussion with the Head Coach about the white stripe. I emphasize that last week doesn't matter. Then I explain, when I come down the line looking back over my shoulder, I will not see you there, my hitting you while you are standing still will cause damage to both of us, but I always leave a gift when I leave, it's yellow and cost 15 yards. I rarely have any collisions anymore.
Title: Re: Sidelines and coaches
Post by: HLinNC on December 30, 2013, 09:51:02 PM
No need for stories of games past, no need to look for the "get back coach", who I've found never do the job that is claimed they'll do, no need for cute, little veiled threats or  blatant ones even.  Remind the boss which line is for whom and then enforce it early.  The first one is free.  Rarely have I ever had to throw #2.
Title: Re: Sidelines and coaches
Post by: Etref on December 31, 2013, 08:54:12 AM
No need for stories of games past, no need to look for the "get back coach", who I've found never do the job that is claimed they'll do, no need for cute, little veiled threats or  blatant ones even.  Remind the boss which line is for whom and then enforce it early.  The first one is free.  Rarely have I ever had to throw #2.

In NCAA rules the first one is 5 yards now. But, we should still enforce it vigorously.
Title: Re: Sidelines and coaches
Post by: busman on December 31, 2013, 10:02:14 AM
In my two years as an observer, I have yet to see sidelines consistently enforced. And it amazes me in my post game visits how defensive crews can get about it. They complain about it happening in the 4th quarter and I keep telling them you can solve it the first four plays of the games. By not doing it then, they set themselves up for trouble in the fourth quarter. Like was said previously, the first warning usually solves it, and the second one with the flag almost always takes care of it. Rarely see the need for the third time and have never seen the death penalty on the fourth one in a junior high or high school game.  (We all know pee wee is a different breed.)

Deal with it early and often and it solves itself.
Title: Re: Sidelines and coaches
Post by: HLinNC on December 31, 2013, 10:40:21 AM
The main cause is the players pushing the coaches up towards us.  Keep the players back, the coaches stay back.

  Before the current NFHS rule and even now, my favorite fields are the multi-purpose turf fields- I tell the coach that during the live ball action to give me the white, you and your staff take the "green", and keep the players behind the blue, red, yellow, etc. soccer line.  Rarely do I have an issue on those fields.  For about half of them, the border is only about half the width specified in the field specs but I can live with it.  As long as there are nice, visible lines, everything works well.

The older grass fields inside the track are the problems in our area.  The sidelines are much tighter.  When we started having to enforce the current NFHS rule, many of the HC's complained that their kids were having to stand on the track.  My normal response was "they'll probably have a better view than me & you".

Now if we could only get the turf companies to add "clip marks" when they install the field, my life would be almost complete. :laugh:
Title: Re: Sidelines and coaches
Post by: busman on December 31, 2013, 11:04:01 AM
Nothing wrong with players on the track.