RefStripes.com
Football Officiating => General Discussion => Topic started by: NorCalMike on September 13, 2014, 03:09:56 AM
-
Our association has really be pushing us to keep the game moving. They say we are taking to long to get the fame finished. I wonder what they are going to say about this one.
My varsity game was the longest game I have ever had. 3 hours and 20 minutes. I think both QB's were threw about 60 passes but only completed 20. During one stretch we had 3 back to back turn over on downs with the ball not moving from the same yard line. At one point I asked both teams if they had any running plays.
On top of the length of the game, I was blind sided by a defensive player and now have a huge bruise on my shoulder blade.
-
The only way we are going to get the length of the high school game back down to a more reasonable length is with help from the rules makers, and I just don't see that happening. 20 years ago 2 hour games were the norm. I've observed 2 Friday nights this year. Week 1 lasted 2:56. Last night lasted 2:43, and the mercy rule (running clock) kicked in with 7 minutes left in the 4th quarter. It could have easily lasted 3 hours under normal timing rules.
-
The only way we are going to get the length of the high school game back down to a more reasonable length is with help from the rules makers, and I just don't see that happening.
The game itself has been changing, more emphasis on passing, more complicated patterns, developing pass defenses, off season Flag Football leagues for HS players,focusing on passing skills. Far more balanced attacks is where the game is going, and there doesn't seem to be a lot of interest in changing that direction.
Although it's not always the best thing, HS football interests follows what's happening at upper levels and more and more emphasis is directed at the passing game at those levels. For better, or worse, it simply, "is what it is".
-
I think we could speed it up a little of we could convince the teams to have multiple balls. A lot of our time was spent retrieving the long incomplete passes. If we could have just got a new ball from the sideline, we would be able to blow the ball ready in 8-10 seconds.
-
I think we could speed it up a little of we could convince the teams to have multiple balls. A lot of our time was spent retrieving the long incomplete passes. If we could have just got a new ball from the sideline, we would be able to blow the ball ready in 8-10 seconds.
We get a new ball for the next play and relay the incomplete pass ball to the sideline. Our ball boys/girl's are told to be ready for it.
-
I think we could speed it up a little of we could convince the teams to have multiple balls.
Wow. I understand MS ball where either a coach hangs on to the spare or the 7 year old little brother ball boy has it playing behind the bench but no ball boys with extras in HS??
-
The stats were just posted for this game.
Sac High 91 plays QB was 23 for 57. 17 penalties for 153 yds.
Vista 101 plays 20 for 49. 5 penalties for 60 yards.
If I flagged every holding call we would still be on the field.
-
The stats were just posted for this game.
Sac High 91 plays QB was 23 for 57. 17 penalties for 153 yds.
Vista 101 plays 20 for 49. 5 penalties for 60 yards.
If I flagged every holding call we would still be on the field.
Combined +/-40% completions...and I bet the majority of the attempts were >20yds.
I bet too any time a runner neared the sideline they just ran OOB. - just like we see on sat/sun....but on sat/sun they roll the clock on OOB plays...
We've talked about this before on the board here that in places HS games, -25% the game length (12min quarters) of NCAA/NFL games, are on or about the same length of time as NCAA/NFL games.
Maybe NFHS will examine this sooner than later and review a few clock-related rules.
-
We are also seeing longer games in Illinois. My observations are: 1) More passing than ever. 2) the no-huddle offense seems to take more time than the traditional huddle. 3) Most schools now have the 25 second clock on the field and have a better awareness of squeezing every second between downs. 4) Coaches using all of their time-outs. 5) More injury awareness on our part, when we see a kid that might be hurt we are erring to safety and getting them off the field for a replacement. 6) Chasing incomplete passes, when all five of us take part in the relay of the long incomplete pass down the middle of the field, it still requires time for us to get back in position before we can blow the RFP. 7) We are seeing much higher scoring games than in previous eras. 8) 20 minute half times for events other than homecoming. 9) lightning / thunder delays.
-
All of ECILLJ's observations are valid. My average time before the timing rule change was 1:45. In the three years after, it went to 2:10. Now, it's about 2:30.
Honestly, we and the media are probably the only ones who care about the length of games.
-
There's nothing we or the rules makers can do about incomplete passes. When these terrible teams try to run the spread and can't throw, you'll be there forever.
What we can fix is efficiency in penalty enforcement and reducing the amount of time between the try and subsequent kickoff.
-
There's nothing we or the rules makers can do about incomplete passes. When these terrible teams try to run the spread and can't throw, you'll be there forever.
What we can fix is efficiency in penalty enforcement and reducing the amount of time between the try and subsequent kickoff.
Change the rule so that the clock starts on the ready after an incomplete pass, just like for a first down.
-
Change the rule so that the clock starts on the ready after an incomplete pass, just like for a first down.
+1
-
Change the rule so that the clock starts on the ready after an incomplete pass, just like for a first down.
+1 Million
Ping: Ralph... :)
-
Especially since we are so concerned about "player safety." The longer the game, the more snaps, the greater potential for injury. Kind of a no-brainer. Then again, nobody ever said this was simple. :sTiR:
-
Change the rule so that the clock starts on the ready after an incomplete pass, just like for a first down.
That will solve things but I dont think anything like that will ever pass.
Heck, (this would never pass too but) make the quarters/halves a running clock like soccer and it only stops for timeouts.
-
Change the rule so that the clock starts on the ready after an incomplete pass, just like for a first down.
The more moderate change would be adopting the NCAA OOB rule where plays that end OOB start the clock on RFP. This did make it to the floor for a final vote this year, but failed. IMHO, the controversial portion was the acceptance of reverting to the current rule at a set time nearing the end of a half.
-
The more moderate change would be adopting the NCAA OOB rule where plays that end OOB start the clock on RFP. This did make it to the floor for a final vote this year, but failed. IMHO, the controversial portion was the acceptance of reverting to the current rule at a set time nearing the end of a half.
And that's the same problem that would arise if we started the clock after an INC. Coaches want to be able to stop the clock in their 2-minute offense.
-
Over the years several states have ran an experimental rule of OOB-RFP with approval from both coaches and officials - BUT - coaches wanted old rule for last couple of minutes in half....officials didn't want any timing rule change based on time left.....so far, no change. Starting the clock on all RFPs (that's our version of modified running time ) would reduce the half's to 30-35 minutes, so we shouldn't get too carried away.
-
Small thing and I have mentioned this before- run the clock after the TD on into the try as a regular scrimmage play. While I've performed no formal study, I would estimate it takes a minumum of 45 seconds to a minute to get the XP team on the field, lined up, and the kick completed- then we go into a 1 min. intermission prior to the subsequent kickoff.
A low scoring game, no biggie, but how many of those are there now. In your usual 56-14 blowout, that is about 10 minutes.
-
Small thing and I have mentioned this before- run the clock after the TD on into the try as a regular scrimmage play. While I've performed no formal study, I would estimate it takes a minimum of 45 seconds to a minute to get the XP team on the field, lined up, and the kick completed- then we go into a 1 min. intermission prior to the subsequent kickoff.
A low scoring game, no biggie, but how many of those are there now. In your usual 56-14 blowout, that is about 10 minutes.
Many years ago; armed with stop watch, clip board and hot coco; I timed the "down time" that the 1996 COP timing rule change had caused. Without digging into my files, the COP change added around 15 minutes. The MAJOR :!# culprit was down time from TD to ensuing kickoff = around 4:30 minutes = 35 to 21 game = 10 TDs = 43 minutes added. :!# :!# :!#
-
The MAJOR :!# culprit was down time from TD to ensuing kickoff = around 4:30 minutes = 35 to 21 game = 10 TDs = 43 minutes added. :!# :!# :!#
But that's been going on forever. There's been no rules change that has added to that time.
-
But that's been going on forever. There's been no rules change that has added to that time.
Agreed tiphat:,the complaint back then was the COP change was causing games to last much longer. IMHO, the games "lasting much longer" was the increasing passing game = increasing scoring + increasing of incomplete passes.
-
The MAJOR :!# culprit was down time from TD to ensuing kickoff = around 4:30 minutes
That is excessive. I can see 1:30 to 2:00 if a crew was slow, but over 4 minutes is ridiculous. What are they doing? The try shouldn't be any more than 30-45 seconds.
-
I think changing the COP back to where it was would certainly help speed things up.
-
That is excessive. I can see 1:30 to 2:00 if a crew was slow, but over 4 minutes is ridiculous. What are they doing? The try shouldn't be any more than 30-45 seconds.
Scooter runs for TD = congratulated by teammates + sideline cannon goes off + band plays + cheerleaders prance + PAT kick team arrives + RFP + ball kicked into pucker brush + kicking team departs + band plays again +cheerleaders do 7 pushups + largest mammal on chain crew retrieves ball + teams huddle on sidelines + BJ saunters to 40 with football + kickoff team joins BJ there + BJ explains new rule and gives ball to kicker + RFP + ball kicked long /short / high / low/ inbounds /OOB = 4 :30 (our average). In your state you may not have to deal with pucker brush. :)
-
Get the ball while he's being congratulated by his teammates. Soil your pants a little while the cannon goes off after you put the ball down (even though you know it's coming). PAT team is arriving as you are getting in position. Blow the RFP maybe 20-25 seconds after the score which is longer than it needs to be. Teams rarely let the play clock run down on a try to assume ball snapped with 10-15 seconds left on the clock. Get second ball from ball boy (either placed behind the goal post or as you run up the sideline). Someone gets ball out of pucker bush while we are doing other things. 1 minute time out between try and RFP for kickoff.
-
Here is my ten cents on the subject and I realize that a dime is no longer worth what it use to be. LOL
I have worked with officials whom are obsessed with the game time. They will carve every second off the clock that they can get away with. Personally, I am uncomfortable working with these officials because they seem to be more interested in collecting a check and going home rather than officiating a football game.
The creation or modifying of timing rules should not be our concern. The schools and their representative bodies are the ones whom should be or not be concerned. They hire us to officiate the game with the rules they have enacted and put in place.
If they ask us for suggestions, then I am okay with offering my thoughts but we should not be on the leading front of rule changes for game time reduction. To many times these discussions with school representatives and officials do not put us in a favorable light.
-
The MAJOR culprit was down time from TD to ensuing kickoff = around 4:30 minutes = 35 to 21 game = 10 TDs = 43 minutes added.
And that's what I'm saying- the try is included in this segment of time. We know of at least one minute from the end of the try til kickoff 'cause that is in the book. A slow crew or WH will add to that. We've been hounded before to get cranked up by that minute and after team time-outs too.
The try is an extension of the previous down that scored the TD. The clock was obviously live while that play occurred. If the try is an extension of that down, why could it not be a logical rule change to run the clock on the try. I realize we probably are only talking around a minute each but in a high TD game, those minutes add up.
Its a small thing, but since I don't think we'd ever get the votes to install the NCAA rule on OOB or wind on the RFP after an incomplete pass nor any "under 5:00 or 2:00 in a half switch back" kind of rule, I think it can be a compromise.
That and go back to the old rule of wind on RFP after COP. I don't remember any major problems with WH's blowing the RFP too quickly, not allowing teams to get new personnel out on the field.
-
I have worked with officials whom are obsessed with the game time. They will carve every second off the clock that they can get away with. Personally, I am uncomfortable working with these officials because they seem to be more interested in collecting a check and going home rather than officiating a football game.
I've worked with those officials too, and I hate it. These kids work hard all week, and they deserve all 48 minutes of clock time. However, there's a big difference between carving every second off we can, and making sure things keep moving at a brisk pace. I'm not the kind of official who will say a runner's progress was stopped inbounds just to keep the clock moving. I AM the kind of official who blows the RFP as soon as I reasonably can, and who tries to hurry kick teams on to the field after 45 seconds or so, and who goes in to the huddle at 50 seconds in the timeout saying "coach, time to play".
One is cheating the kids; the other is game management.
-
I've worked with those officials too, and I hate it. These kids work hard all week, and they deserve all 48 minutes of clock time. However, there's a big difference between carving every second off we can, and making sure things keep moving at a brisk pace. I'm not the kind of official who will say a runner's progress was stopped inbounds just to keep the clock moving. I AM the kind of official who blows the RFP as soon as I reasonably can, and who tries to hurry kick teams on to the field after 45 seconds or so, and who goes in to the huddle at 50 seconds in the timeout saying "coach, time to play".
One is cheating the kids; the other is game management.
+1
-
One is cheating the kids; the other is game management.
VA, I agree with you 100%. During our Observation game last season, our Observer gave our crew a special mention on his report for our excellent dead ball management and efficiency. He was very pleased with how we kept the game moving. We really appreciated the compliment. It is our crews belief that dead ball management is an important part of our job and we take it seriously.
-
The creation or modifying of timing rules should not be our concern. The schools and their representative bodies are the ones whom should be or not be concerned. They hire us to officiate the game with the rules they have enacted and put in place.
Yeah, all well and good, but the unpredictability of when a game or set of games will end, combined with the overall trend toward lengthening games, has put a significant strain on my family life since my daughter was born.
It's primarily for this reason that after 20 years as a football official, I switched back to soccer this year. I don't yet regret it.
-
The only other sport I work is baseball...
In baseball, the cold - no frozen - base umpire looks at his watch....it's 5 PM and top of the 5th :( ; later he looks at his watch again...it's now 5 :30 PM and still top of the 5th :P :-X :o :( :bOW...frostbite begins to set in :'( :'( :'(....
In football, most games start at 7 PM.....some end by 9 PM...some not until 10 PM...gloves,earmuffs and LLBean woolies keep you warm.....my favorite hobby is officiating football yEs:...if I could choose, what I have liked to do with that extra hour ??? ???....why, officiate football, of course tiphat:.
-
In football, most games start at 7 PM.....some few end by 9 PM...some most not until after 9 : 30 PM...many darn near 10:00 PM.
FIFY... :sTiR:
-
FIFY... :sTiR:
I have modified my post to reflect your suggested times ;)....IMHO, few games in Maine go beyond 2 : 30 in length...probably there are less passes thrown up here ....probably because of the gravitational pull ,or something there such..... I've been in some very,very,very long baseball games..having a very long football game every so often ain't so bad yEs:
Ole' Mainer Proverb : "I cried because I had no shoes, until I saw a man who had no feet."