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Football Officiating => General Discussion => Topic started by: gwarner on September 24, 2014, 07:44:00 PM

Title: face mask penalty enforcement
Post by: gwarner on September 24, 2014, 07:44:00 PM
Where do Mark off a face mask penalty that was done on a quarterback behind the line of scrimmage. Is it a spot foul or do you Mark it off from the previous spot.
Title: Re: face mask penalty enforcement
Post by: NorCalMike on September 24, 2014, 07:51:01 PM
In the NFHS rules it depends on what happened in the play. If the QB gets face masked during the tackle, the penalty is marked from the end of the run so it is the spot of the forward progress of the QB.

If the QB, is face masked during a loose ball play it is previous spot unless the face mask is considered roughing the  passer and the pass is complete in which case it is at the end of the receiver's run.
Title: Re: face mask penalty enforcement
Post by: Kalle on September 25, 2014, 12:26:22 AM
In NCAA the penalty will be enforced from the previous spot, unless it is a pass play and the action is actually roughing the passer, when it can be enforced from the end of the last run if there is no change of team possession during the down.

[Edit: forgot the rule change]
Title: Re: face mask penalty enforcement
Post by: VALJ on September 25, 2014, 07:37:27 AM
Remember also in NFHS code that any illegal personal contact foul committed against the passer - which includes a face mask foul - is now considered to be roughing.  If the QB gets his face mask grabbed while he's throwing the ball, it will come with an automatic first down.  9-4-4 rule change this year.
Title: Re: face mask penalty enforcement
Post by: sir55 on September 25, 2014, 01:26:48 PM
I saw the NFHS official interpretation of the face mask penalty and roughing the passer.  It has to be the 15 yard grasping and twisting type and not the 5 yard incidental face mask penalty to be the roughing the passer tack on/automatic first down enforcement.
Title: Re: face mask penalty enforcement
Post by: VALJ on September 25, 2014, 01:27:57 PM
Good point - thanks for catching that!
Title: Re: face mask penalty enforcement
Post by: Andrew McCarthy on September 25, 2014, 03:54:36 PM
In NCAA the penalty will be enforced from the previous spot, unless it is a pass play and the action is actually roughing the passer, when it can be enforced from the end of the last run if there is no change of team possession during the down.
Wasn't there a rule change this year you're forgetting about?
Title: Re: face mask penalty enforcement
Post by: Kalle on September 26, 2014, 12:01:11 AM
Wasn't there a rule change this year you're forgetting about?

Yes! Delete the highlighted part of my answer. Thanks.
Title: Re: face mask penalty enforcement
Post by: gwarner on September 27, 2014, 06:43:15 PM
It was definitely not roughing the passer, he was just scrambling around and got tackled by the face mask. Thanks for all the input.
Title: Re: face mask penalty enforcement
Post by: AlUpstateNY on September 28, 2014, 02:34:29 PM
It was definitely not roughing the passer, he was just scrambling around and got tackled by the face mask. Thanks for all the input.

Forgive me, but how can you have tackling a "PASSER" by the face mask and NOT have Roughing the Passer?  If the tackle was BEFORE he passed the ball, he's a "Runner"   If he's actually thrown the ball, according to NFHS 2-32-11, "He continues to be a passer until the legal forward pass ends or until he moves to participate in the play."
Title: Re: face mask penalty enforcement
Post by: Kalle on September 28, 2014, 02:43:28 PM
Forgive me, but how can you have tackling a "PASSER" by the face mask and NOT have Roughing the Passer?  If the tackle was BEFORE he passed the ball, he's a "Runner"   If he's actually thrown the ball, according to NFHS 2-32-11, "He continues to be a passer until the legal forward pass ends or until he moves to participate in the play."

The original question was about the quarterback, and never mentioned passing. On the other hand, it never mentioned that there was no pass, so the answers had to take into account the potential pass, too.

Yes, a test question would have been in the format of: "1st and 10 at A-20. A12 catches the snap and runs to A-18 where B55 tackles him by grasping and twisting the facemask. Where is the penalty enforced from?" But as this was just a play situation question on the forum, I think we don't need to be that pedantic in requiring the questions to be in an unambiguous form. We can always either attempt to answer all potential cases or ask for clarification.