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Football Officiating => Texas Topics => Topic started by: joelw83 on December 17, 2014, 12:25:30 PM
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Is it important enough for the State Championship games to have replay? I think there are enough officials in the state that are currently RO's. The stadium is equipped to handle it. Too much?
(P.S. I'm trying to start a new topic. Tired off reading the other post on playoff distribution.)
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Cant change the rules just for one game. How many teams would say we would be playing in the championship if they would have used it on our game.
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They only have replay in the D2 and D3 championship games in college. Really no different. I say let's do whatever it takes to help us get it right on the field.
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If we can't get or "get approved", a seven man crew for the games, there is really no need for replay. In one of the other threads, it was theorized on how difficult it would be to suddenly switch to 7 man for keys, responsibilities, etc, I think that is a overstating how much F and S actually do ;), but, if you can't get a few keys changes down in a week... You surely aren't going to get a whole new rule that most have no experience with at all.
I am all for it, after we have seven on the field for each game.
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The replay company they use will charge $6K to $7K per game, maybe a discounted rate for that many games, but it is very expensive. I'm a replay tech for college level game and see what all is involved. There's a lot!
replay official
replay communicator
replay technician
scribe (not always used)
green vest
Then you have the logistics of working with a truck/broadcaster that very well may not be the same guys that run NFL games, so you have that to deal with. It is not as easy as one might think, and certainly cost prohibitive. The UIL wants the green.
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If cost is an issue, you could have a 5 man committee (represented from a pool of officials from the chapters that don't get games) sit in the upper deck and make a ruling using Jerry's TV and communicate down to the 4th chain crew guy who could be standing close to the S on the 7 man crew.
Multiple problems solved. ^good
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If cost is an issue, you could have a 5 man committee (represented from a pool of officials from the chapters that don't get games) sit in the upper deck and make a ruling using Jerry's TV and communicate down to the 4th chain crew guy who could be standing close to the S on the 7 man crew.
Multiple problems solved. ^good
:thumbup
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If cost is an issue, you could have a 5 man committee (represented from a pool of officials from the chapters that don't get games) sit in the upper deck and make a ruling using Jerry's TV and communicate down to the 4th chain crew guy who could be standing close to the S on the 7 man crew.
Multiple problems solved. ^good
They could just monitor the chat we are all in during the games and we could rule for them!
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You can do replay with a split live feed, two monitors and one TIVO/DVR. Cost for all equipment around $500 and can be used for many years. You would need two in the booth and one on the field with a wired headset to stop the game if there are no pagers. In Texas the rules would be easy to adapt but in other states the hard part is setting the procedures for stopping/reviewing and getting the NFHS to sign off on it.
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You can do replay with a split live feed, two monitors and one TIVO/DVR. Cost for all equipment around $500 and can be used for many years. You would need two in the booth and one on the field with a wired headset to stop the game if there are no pagers. In Texas the rules would be easy to adapt but in other states the hard part is setting the procedures for stopping/reviewing and getting the NFHS to sign off on it.
With equipment that cheap and unreliable you might as well just not have it. DVSports essentially is the only play left in football IR.
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I have been using the same TIVO at home for the past 8 years and never had a problem. TIVO systems were common in the early years of replay in the NCAA and some stadiums used a stack of up to six of them for multiple camera feeds. The DV system uses a single line feed and cuts the feed to create multiple looks based on the views seen on TV and a TIVO or DVR can be used basically the same way. It is true that the DV system is less cumbersome to operate but it is also much more money to purchase and maintain. For a HS league who would like to test a replay operation this is a great way to get started.
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When I started as a IR tech, the backup system was a Tivo. The biggest problem is there is no marking of a new play, and not marking of differing angle replays for the RO to quickly choose from. The systems in place now were created to help the RO very quickly reach a decision. The decision should never take more than 2 minutes from the time the R announces the review to when he announces a decision. The Tivo route does not at all lend itself to a quick decision, and could wind up taking 5 to 10 minutes. That couldn't happen in a high school game where the crew already is not used to using replay. With a good IR crew, the decision could be made before the R even grabs the headphones from the green vest. We had many IR's that lasted 45 seconds or less from announcement to announcement, but that was with the right equipment and very good HD video.
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Not trying to run this into the ground but just offering up an inexpensive option to get a program started. I worked an entire season with a single TIVO and did not have any problem with timing or quality. The DV system is better. Some replays take longer than others depending on the play, replay official, video angle and producers. I have seen many replays using a DV system that took longer than two minutes but I agree that most are and should be under two minutes.
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I am not sure we want to chase this rabbit down the hole!
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I am not sure we want to chase this rabbit down the hole!
Agree. It makes for good discussion, but the likelihood of high school adopting IR on an in-season basis anytime soon is slim to none, even in the football-crazy deep South.
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Not trying to run this into the ground but just offering up an inexpensive option to get a program started. I worked an entire season with a single TIVO and did not have any problem with timing or quality. The DV system is better. Some replays take longer than others depending on the play, replay official, video angle and producers. I have seen many replays using a DV system that took longer than two minutes but I agree that most are and should be under two minutes.
You are right about one thing for sure, it is a much less expensive alternative. DVSports rakes in the $ during bowl season.
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Don't know about the rest of you Texas HS officials but I don't study Rule 12. If considering IR for a single game this would be a consideration.
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With equipment that cheap and unreliable you might as well just not have it. DVSports essentially is the only play left in football IR.
Doc, Xos might dispute your assumption. They are still alive and well in IR.
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Doc, Xos might dispute your assumption. They are still alive and well in IR.
You're kidding? I used their system the last two years. So many problems. I thought they were completely out of the football gig and just doing other sports.
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Don't know about the rest of you Texas HS officials but I don't study Rule 12. If considering IR for a single game this would be a consideration.
After yesterday, you can bet this is going to get a hard look before next year. We argued to UIL that we needed 7 man crews before we should worry about IR Well we got 7 man crews and still need IR apparently.
And don't worry about learning Rule 12...I predict if we go to IR they will use IR crews and on field crews from CFO West and LSC because they will "know " the rules for it. So all our discussion about who has the "right" to the championship games becomes moot.
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IR is certainly going to get a lot of discussion in the off season.
I think that if IR comes "only" to a certain game, i.e. the SC's, the rules committee would write exceptions to simplify the process. But, as we know from college IR, it can still get messed up.
In the Argyle/Navasota game how would IR have ruled on:
1. the fumble into the EZ
2. the TD catch
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It is not just as easy as asking what would IR have done. The game is officiated differently by officials who know they have IR behind them and those who do not. I know many, if not all, of our major college brethren will dispute that but I believe we see it time after time. So in this game, the officials would likely have let the 1st play play out and initially ruled fumble, so that IR could help them if need be. In the 2d, they would have done as was done here, rule TD and let IR take it away if need be
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After yesterday, you can bet this is going to get a hard look before next year. We argued to UIL that we needed 7 man crews before we should worry about IR Well we got 7 man crews and still need IR apparently.
And don't worry about learning Rule 12...I predict if we go to IR they will use IR crews and on field crews from CFO West and LSC because they will "know " the rules for it. So all our discussion about who has the "right" to the championship games becomes moot.
Ah TXMike....let's not forget there are are also RO's from the Sun Belt, American Athletic Conference, C-USA and the SEC available to work as well. yEs:
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Yep but none of them have the connections to UIL and TASO that would be required
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We WILL see replay in the finals next year. Mark my words. With the camera angles showing the plays on both TV and the screen, there is no way this will continue the way it did this year. Some of the calls that were missed, well, its just unfortunate. Good position, etc, but the wrong outcome. We know they were wrong because after slowing the play down (something the officials on the field can't do) and rewinding over and over, it was clear what happened.
Regular season games are not covered like these games. They'll use the same crews as they would but with replay college officials and his "staff."
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I'd like to see it on a limited basis. Catch/no catch, fumble, all turnovers and all scoring plays.
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Only if they guarantee guys who worked HS all year are the onfield officials
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Only if they guarantee guys who worked HS all year are the onfield officials
You would see a mass walkout of HS officials if they took away the championship games from us HS officials.
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Roger that. I can find another way to waste. 30 hrs a week
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It's immeasurably more important for the RO to know replay rules than the on field officials. I'm sure they'd use a college RO, field officials would be HS.
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Disagree. If you do not adjust the way you officiate some plays you effectively limit IR ability to help
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I'm gonna boo you again.
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IR is certainly going to get a lot of discussion in the off season.
I think that if IR comes "only" to a certain game, i.e. the SC's, the rules committee would write exceptions to simplify the process. But, as we know from college IR, it can still get messed up.
In the Argyle/Navasota game how would IR have ruled on:
1. the fumble into the EZ
2. the TD catch
1. Touchback
2. Incomplete pass
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Yep but none of them have the connections to UIL and TASO that would be required
The SEC does...
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You would see a mass walkout of HS officials if they took away the championship games from us HS officials.
No you won't. There are plenty of officials that know they'll never work a state final and won't want to give up their regular season varsity schedules. It is every man for himself out there and seeing who signed up after the UIL demanded registration before that all got cleared up was proof of that.
I have no doubt IR will be here soon. There's too much on the line and too much money involved for them not to implement it.
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Go pros on helmets every member of crew wears them. Recorded to iPad on sideline. Streamed to TxMike house where he can decide the outcome. Then he text the crew the answer. It will be quicker then the time it takes to reset the game clock.
UIL and Taso can then sale the viewing rights over an app and make lots of money. Coaches will like the camera angles from oline dline play.
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No you won't. There are plenty of officials that know they'll never work a state final and won't want to give up their regular season varsity schedules. It is every man for himself out there and seeing who signed up after the UIL demanded registration before that all got cleared up was proof of that.
I have no doubt IR will be here soon. There's too much on the line and too much money involved for them not to implement it.
I didn't sign up and most I know did not
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Agree. The numbers who signed up were miniscule. More than I would have wanted to see but still miniscule. For me it is not about taking away any chance I have of getting the state game. I know I do not have that chance anyway for a variety of reasons. For me it is about respect. By summarily throwing our guys to the side they would be showing huge disrespect to all that we do YEAR ROUND to make Texas HS football what it is. That may not affect some folks, but for me it is inexcusable.
Dallas Morning News article re replay for HS : http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/high-schools/headlines/20141220-debate-for-instant-replay-at-uil-state-finals-continues-after-several-controversial-game-impacting-calls.ece
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I don't see us being able to stop this train. Hopefully we can help guide it but it is coming unless coaches beat it down.
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Watch them implement IR but not require that a 7 man crew be used.
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That would definitely be par for the course. I am more concerned that they will require 7 man crews but require they have had experience all year working in IR games. Read between those lines.