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Football Officiating => Texas Topics => Topic started by: TxSkyBolt on January 18, 2015, 06:20:14 PM
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Do any chapters have fixed 7-man crews? If so, do they get picked every week or are there weeks they sit home?
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Do not mention 7man crews to anyone from Houston. The chapter/city/state might burn down because of it.
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Que?
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It's a touchy subject around here. ;)
It's kind of like the end of the first Terminator movie when the young boy tells Sarah Connor "Mira mira! Viene la tormenta!"
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I find it absurd that all chapters are not moving towards having a least a few 7 man crews available to the schools that wish to utilize them. hEaDbAnG
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What happens to the two deep guys the 5-6 weeks during the year the coaches only want a 5 man crew?
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What happens to the two deep guys the 5-6 weeks during the year the coaches only want a 5 man crew?
Good question. My answer is, we work as a 7 man crew or we don't. You might sit at home on a Friday night or be used as fill-ins somewhere.
My question is, if you limit the number of 7 man crews on your chapter, how and who decides who gets to form a 7 man crew?
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Not all of our games get picked... many are assigned. If a 7 man crew doesn't get picked, those guys can then be assigned according to the normal procedures, even if it is only 5 of them. I have a feeling the assigners will make sure we're working before they let us sit at home... even if they have to give us an assigned game.
Most guys that I have talked to are willing to "risk" not getting picked, because we are confident that there are enough coaches that will embrace the 7 man crews and it is really no risk at all.
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If the coaches, schools, etc wanted 7 man crew why did nearly all of the SC games go 5 man this year?
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If the coaches, schools, etc wanted 7 man crew why did nearly all of the SC games go 5 man this year?
The smaller schools are likely less apt to go with 7 man. They are not as athletic nor do they throw the ball as well. The 6A and 5A schools, which comprise a small percentage of the overall playoff games, like would want 7 man crews.
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Not necessarily. Coaches are still concerned that 2 more officials would increase flags 20%. Some are also concerned that they won't be able to get away with whatever it is they think they can get away with now. We need to show them the first concern is not valid, and the second concern should be the opposing coach's, something that 7 man may work to prevent.
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So I gather by the responses that NO TASO chapters have established 7-man crews. That's a good piece of data to have.
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Not necessarily. Coaches are still concerned that 2 more officials would increase flags 20%. Some are also concerned that they won't be able to get away with whatever it is they think they can get away with now. We need to show them the first concern is not valid, and the second concern should be the opposing coach's, something that 7 man may work to prevent.
That may have been true in previous years, but more and more coaches are seeing the benefits of 7 man crews. Like any change, especially concerning coaches, they sometimes are not well-received or embraced immediately. Like going to 4 man to 5 man back in the late 80's, this change will happen. It is a matter of when, not if.
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In the 80's we had to bring to coaches kicking a screaming to 5 man crews!
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The most important thing to do would be educate the coaches on the benefits of 7 man crews... show them the difference in the mechanics, etc. Help them understand that they are the ones that will benefit.
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The most important thing to do would be educate the coaches on the benefits of 7 man crews... show them the difference in the mechanics, etc. Help them understand that they are the ones that will benefit.
How does one educate/explain the benefits of 7 man crews to coach whose team is primarily a running team ???
Just wondering how that conversation would go. hEaDbAnG
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Let's not forget that 7-man crews also provide much better coverage at the goal line. Running plays that end near the pylons are critical plays and having an official right there to make a call is a great benefit of 7 man coverage. That is one of the most compelling reasons to go to 7-man crews IMO.
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How does one educate/explain the benefits of 7 man crews to coach whose team is primarily a running team ???
Just wondering how that conversation would go. hEaDbAnG
Welpe answered that question very well. We do so much more than rule on fouls. Catch/no catch, in bounds/out of bounds, pylon busters, fumble/no fumble are just a few examples. Those are often bigger than fouls in the course of a game. 7-man crews helps make the crew better on each of those.
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Another big advantage with 7 man mechanics is kick coverage. Both free and scrimmage kicks are better covered with 7. You don't have to send the L deep for field goals, the L doesn't have to head down field on punts, you get a full box on the restraining lines plus the three deep guys on every fee kick. I just don't see why people don't want to switch if you have the people.
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Another big advantage with 7 man mechanics is kick coverage. Both free and scrimmage kicks are better covered with 7. You don't have to send the L deep for field goals, the L doesn't have to head down field on punts, you get a full box on the restraining lines plus the three deep guys on every fee kick. I just don't see why people don't want to switch if you have the people.
Would love to have 7 man crews, but most chapters do not have enough folks to field the crew. Seems the chapters that do, don't want them.
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Trust me, I know. I come from one of those chapters that can't field 7 man crews. Heck, some times we have a hard time fielding 4/5 man crews for all of our games. But for those who have the resources, what argument could you possibly have against going to 7.
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As several have pointed out, the benefits go beyond the passing game. Thus the reason the coaches (and maybe some officials not familiar with the mechanics) should be educated. I'm not suggesting all crews should go to 7... Few, if any, chapters have enough guys to accommodate that. The bigger chapters, though, should be able to provide at least a few crews of 7 so the schools are at least provided that option.
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As several have pointed out, the benefits go beyond the passing game. Thus the reason the coaches (and maybe some officials not familiar with the mechanics) should be educated. I'm not suggesting all crews should go to 7... Few, if any, chapters have enough guys to accommodate that. The bigger chapters, though, should be able to provide at least a few crews of 7 so the schools are at least provided that option.
You're right. Even in a big chapter like SA, we don't have the heads to be able to make every crew a 7 man crew. That means it has to be limited, and I think that will cause problems. How do you decide which crew can or cannot be 7 man. The crews not going to 7 and the crews with lesser games will certainly see some guys taken from their crews. That's going to ruffle some feathers, but it should stop us from moving forward.
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Every Houston Crew next year will be listed out as a 7man crew. Schools that are picking 7man crews will get to pick first, 5A 6A 5man schools will pick 2nd, 5man everyone else will pick last.
This will make for a very long day. My guess is that there are 15 games a week that are going to use 7man crews.
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As of last night all Houston crews will be 7 man. Schools using 7 man crews pick crews before games using 5 man crews. This means hypothetically that private school X using 7 man will select before state 6A powerhouse who wants to use 5 man.
If a game is 5 man it is hoped that S and F will either get clocks or find a substitute role on another game that night. Perfect? No. Step in the right direction? Absolutely.
Rome was not built in a single day, or season.
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Every Houston Crew next year will be listed out as a 7man crew. Schools that are picking 7man crews will get to pick first, 5A 6A 5man schools will pick 2nd, 5man everyone else will pick last.
This will make for a very long day. My guess is that there are 15 games a week that are going to use 7man crews.
seems like if the coaches want their perceived "top crew" they will pick them as 7 man regardless.
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seems like if the coaches want their perceived "top crew" they will pick them as 7 man regardless.
That's assuming they will be available!
The draft is going to be interesting this year. I am glad to see that we are all in on 7 man crews, even if there's a chance some of the crew will not be able to work. It's good progress for us and will be better for the game as a whole.
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That sounds like a pretty good plan right there...
So if 7-man crew X doesn't get selected by the "7 man schools" are the 5 - F and S "available" in the 5 man draft?
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If the crew elects to be open for 5 man games, then yes that crew is available to work
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As of last night all Houston crews will be 7 man. Schools using 7 man crews pick crews before games using 5 man crews. This means hypothetically that private school X using 7 man will select before state 6A powerhouse who wants to use 5 man.
If a game is 5 man it is hoped that S and F will either get clocks or find a substitute role on another game that night. Perfect? No. Step in the right direction? Absolutely.
Rome was not built in a single day, or season.
So you have reduced the number of crews in the Chapter by roughly 15% to add 2 officials to each surviving crew? I assume you "broke up" the crews that received the fewest games and added those members on the the surviving crews as the FJ / SJ?
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Do you really believe we can "Add" anyone? Our white hats our too pig headed (me included) to let anyone force someone on me. Right now less then 10% of the members on crews are under age 40. It is going to be interesting to see how many of the Deep Wings are under age 40. I am thinking the percentage is actually going to go down not up but I am a hater and pessimist by nature. From what I am seeing it looks more like getting D1's off of other crews that are 60 year olds as opposed to getting 20 & 30 year olds and training the next generation. Which works out for me and my long term plans to take over the chapter in 10 years aWaRd
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So you have reduced the number of crews in the Chapter by roughly 15% to add 2 officials to each surviving crew? I assume you "broke up" the crews that received the fewest games and added those members on the the surviving crews as the FJ / SJ?
Why would you assume that? We don't have a fixed number of crews. If I had to guess we'll see more folks that were not on crews this last year brought on to crews as deep wings this year. I'd be kind of surprised if we saw any crews dissolve because of this that weren't already going to dissolve this year anyways.
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^flag
Houston had some 79 crews in 2014. I would say that it would now be a fairly safe bet that its number of crews will go down somewhere between the very high 60's and low 70's, at least for the 2015 football season. As I understand it, with all Houston crews now being designated as 7-Man Crews, whenever the 5-Man Mechanics games, irregardless of classification, are picked in Sessions 2 and 3, the F and S can be designated for game clock and shot clock duty in those games, or can be relegated to the assignment pool with all other officials that did not draw a game on a particular date.
I can also see that some of the 6A/5A coaches that were adverse to the usage of 7-Man Mechanics, might well now have second thoughts regarding using those mechanics, if for no other reason at all, in being able to have access to selecting the crews that they have been using in the past. If they wait until Session 2, then those same crews are more than likely not going to be up on the board for selection.
I do not know exactly what the breakdown of schools or districts were in the acceptance of 7-Man, but with all of the high octane, no-huddle, spread offenses that are currently being run, and the added responsibilities of maintaining visual jurisdiction of both the visual game and play clocks, 7-Man Mechanics is about the only logical format to try to collectively cover these with.
This greatly reminds me of back in the late 80's/early 90's when college basketball introduced 3-Man Mechanics, primarily with all of the run-and-shoot offenses, coupled with the relentless full-court-presses. Surely enough, the high schools started to mirror those very same college coaching tactics and it was largely the college basketball officials who also worked the high school game that suggested this new format to those high school coaches and administrators..
Well, of course the high school coaches didn't really want it because it just presented another set of eyes out there to potentially call a lot more fouls to get their star players out of the game early; the administrators didn't want it because it would mean requesting a lot more money for their already strapped budgets in order to them to financially function; and the old school 2-Man officials didn't want to see it happen because they were quite comfortable enough doing the rigorous Two-Man, and did not want to dedicate the necessary time and energy in order to learn how to effectively work 3-Man. They were very happy right where they were, often muttering the old addage, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
Well, as Houston gradually took the initiative and got it all started, first in the larger schools, and then rapidly into all of the other ones, inclusive of even the smaller parochials; little by little, the vast majority of the remaining state chapters of TASO came to adopt it almost universally.
The coaches ended up liking it because they could see that this new set of mechanics fostered a better covered and safely played game. The administators liked it because of not only those same reasons, but also of the fact that the usage of a third official, conversely, did not break their budget. The majority of old school officials who wanted to keep 2-Man the norm, learned and greatly succeeded in these new mechanics, while the extremely small minority of the stubborn, obstinate, politicizing ones pulled up stakes and retired. The really great thing about 3-Man was that it preemptively added years to the officiating livlihoods of so many of the officials, because it helped curtail a lot of the constant running that a two-man crew does. Just as with basketball, the new football mechanics should theoretically do the very same for that sport.
Houston is the true trailblazer in getting 7-Man Football Mechanics into the forefront. As it succeeded with bringing us from 4-Man to 5-Man Football Officiating, it will also succeed with making 7-Man Mechanics the new norm, first for Houston, and then for the State. As with all new things, it's going to take a lot of work, dedication, recruitment of high school and college prospects, and training to make this all properly function. But with TASO's and the UIL's tacit acceptance of this necessity, I know that all of us can do our parts in making it all work effectively! z^
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Well as of now, the news is that Houston is going back to the status quo and the normal picking order. The only change will be that we now have 7-man crews on the roster instead of 5.
The more things change, the more they stay the same it seems.
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What happened, some of the crews stage a revolt?
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What happened, some of the crews stage a revolt?
Nope. Chapter got cold feet after the 6A & 5A coaches threatened not to draft in the 7 man round.
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Figured as much
So,are the staying with 7 man crews anyway? The F and S may wind up in the pool. Not many will want to leave a crew to get dumped later.
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Just speaking from experience when we went from 4 to 5 man crews in northeast Texas, you just can't give coaches a choice. Just make the change and let them bitch about it. If the choice is 7 man or NO man, they will go with the flow.
The problem with smaller chapters will be filling that many crews.