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Football Officiating => General Discussion => Topic started by: bradestes on August 31, 2015, 02:10:36 PM
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I have a question regarding when the clock should have started in a youth game i was coaching yesterday.
My team is on defense. We are tied, and there is a minute left in the game. Opponent has the ball on their own 3 yard line. They throw an incomplete pass on second down, so the clock is stopped. On third down, they run the ball, runner stays in bounds, but there is a holding penalty that we accept (they had the first down otherwise). So we replay third down. The refs started the clock when the ball was set, as opposed to going back to the way third down originally started, which was the clock starting at the snap. Opposing team runs down the majority of the clock, and we end in a tie.
Is this correct, or should they have waited until the ball was snapped?
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They got it right...status of the clock at the end of the play. Paly ended in bounds clock would have started on ready for play....so clock starts on ready for play after penalty administration.
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Agree. yEs:
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Thanks guys
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Coach
The rule as I was taught was "what would you do if there was no penalty." So, in your case, run ended in bounds, so without the clock stopping for the penalty the clock would have continued to run. Two other cases illustrate this. So, clock was running after 2nd down, and Offense throws an incomplete pass, but Defense gets called for Offsides (or Roughing the Passer). With your question, the clock should run because it was running on the last play. But the rule is what happened on 2nd down -- an incomplete pass. So, enforce the penalty and clock is stopped and does not start until snap because of the incomplete pass. Second case is Holding call on play the Offense scores a touchdown. Enforce the penalty, and clock starts on the snap because without the penalty, the clock would not run after a score -- because you would go to the untimed try.
Simple!
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Doesn't always work.
A's Ball 1st and 10 from 50, A runs for 5 and fumbles B recovers (all inbounds). During A's run B is called for a facemask. A will next get the ball 1st and 10 at the B 30 and clock will start on the ready (by your logic it should be on the snap-if no penalty B's ball) Rule in this case is 4-3-b (Clock starts on snap if B is awarded a new series).
Lesson here is to know the rules not "general rules of thumb," and be careful what you tell coaches as it may haunt the next crew.
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The summary one of my colleagues came up with is that for NFHS code, if any of the following 10 things happen during a play, the clock will start on the snap or when a free kick is legally touched:
a - the ball goes out of bounds
b - B or R is awarded a new series
c - either team is awarded a new series following a legal kick
d - the ball becomes dead behind either goal line
e - a legal or illegal forward pass is incomplete
f - a request for a charged, or radio/TV, timeout is granted
g - a period ends
h - a team attempts to consume time illegally
i - the penalty for a delay of game foul is accepted
j - a fair catch is made
If NONE of these items occur during a down, the clock will next start on the ready for play.
Can't speak to NCAA code, though I know a good number of these apply there as well.
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Team A 1st and 10, no time outs left. On 1st down, there is a gain of 5 yards. Team A runs to the line of scrimmage as clock runs. Then:
A) QB (from under center) takes the snap and quickly spikes the ball, but Team A was flagged for false start negating the play. After penalty assessment, CLOCK ON THE READY, because the spike play never actually happened due to dead ball penalty. Correct?
B) QB (in shotgun) takes the snap and spikes the ball. No false start this time, but, of course, illegal forward pass. After penalty assessment, CLOCK ON THE SNAP, because we have a play with an incomplete pass. Correct?
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Team A 1st and 10, no time outs left. On 1st down, there is a gain of 5 yards. Team A runs to the line of scrimmage as clock runs. Then:
A) QB (from under center) takes the snap and quickly spikes the ball, but Team A was flagged for false start negating the play. After penalty assessment, CLOCK ON THE READY, because the spike play never actually happened due to dead ball penalty. Correct?
B) QB (in shotgun) takes the snap and spikes the ball. No false start this time, but, of course, illegal forward pass. After penalty assessment, CLOCK ON THE SNAP, because we have a play with an incomplete pass. Correct?
A) Correct.
B) Depends on the rule set. The clock is the same (I think), but in NCAA there is no penalty as team A may stop the clock in this way.
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(B) In NFHS, the referee may start the clock on the RFP if he feels A fouled to illegally conserve time.