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Football Officiating => General Discussion => Topic started by: BrendanP on November 02, 2015, 06:38:27 PM
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https://gma.yahoo.com/high-school-football-player-ejected-praising-god-end-201359928--abc-news-topstories.html?cid=fb_gma_sf
There's got to be more to this story. I really hate that this has become political fodder, but like I say, there HAS to be more to this than is being presented.
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No big issue -- 2 UNS is an automatic disqualification. I am assuming the official thought the action was prolonged. I am all in favor of prayer -- take it to the sideline. I always try to tell the player that scores to go find a teammate to celebrate with. Anytime you do any act, any act, by yourself, you expose yourself to a flag. Football is a team sport. Individual act takes away from the fact that the scoring player got all those great blocks that allowed him to score. Not to many can score by themselves against 11 defenders.
Just my humble opinion and what I have learned watching this rule evolve over the last 20+ years.
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That would explain it. I got wind of this through a local paper, where someone had written one of those short editorial pieces screaming that this is more evidence of the "criminalization of Christianity" and that deeply offends me both as a referee and a non-believer. No I wouldn't have flagged it, but what's done is done and from what I read, the school is in talks with the conference to see if the kid can be reinstated for next week's game. I never thought our avocation would come into the subject of politics! Sports is one of the most non-political topics you can talk about! nAnA ;)
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That whole article is useless without video. Plus the fact that it fails to mention that a second UNS (or USC since this is a Fed game) is an auto-DQ. It wasn't like the official saw him praying and tossed him for it. Also, I like that the writer refers to his first unsportsmanlike foul as an "aggressive argument". I'm sure that's all it was, just arguing with an opponent. ::)
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There's video in the high school forum thread about this.
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IMHO, 10-5-1c (Any delayed, excessive or prolonged act....) is purely subjective.
IMHO, most of us wouldn't ^flag it.
IMHO, some of us would ^flag.
IMHO, pushing the envelope on a subjective rule is like playing Russian Roulette; most of the time nothing will happen...but sometime it will...maybe at the least opportune moment.
IMHO, the player had already drew one USC ^flag and as Dean Wormer once said : " (He) was on 'double secret ' probation".
IMHO, when one arrives in the end zone, one should act like one is in familiar surroundings. tiphat:
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There's video in the high school forum thread about this.
The video in the NFHS forum is about a player in upstate NY, I believe this is in Arizona.
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IMHO, 10-5-1c (Any delayed, excessive or prolonged act....) is purely subjective.
IMHO, most of us wouldn't ^flag it.
IMHO, some of us would ^flag.
IMHO, pushing the envelope on a subjective rule is like playing Russian Roulette; most of the time nothing will happen...but sometime it will...maybe at the least opportune moment.
IMHO, the player had already drew one USC ^flag and as Dean Wormer once said : " (He) was on 'double secret ' probation".
IMHO, when one arrives in the end zone, one should act like one is in familiar surroundings. tiphat:
:thumbup :thumbup
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I always try to tell the player that scores to go find a teammate to celebrate with. Anytime you do any act, any act, by yourself, you expose yourself to a flag.
This seems counter to what I have seen taught. Granted, I am relatively new and dont have anywhere close to 20 years...I've been taught that group celebrations are more likely to draw flags.
If you have a player take a knee in the EZ and point skywards, I got nothing. If you have a group of players in the EZ do anything pre-meditated, then you have to stop and think.
Assuming the ball isnt used as a prop, and the player doesnt commit one of the "automatics" (NCAA FR-93 Rule 9-2-1-a), or something equally egregious, I cant see flagging this.
But as someone else already mentioned, without video and context, its hard to speculate.
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This seems counter to what I have seen taught. Granted, I am relatively new and dont have anywhere close to 20 years...I've been taught that group celebrations are more likely to draw flags.
If you have a player take a knee in the EZ and point skywards, I got nothing. If you have a group of players in the EZ do anything pre-meditated, then you have to stop and think.
Assuming the ball isnt used as a prop, and the player doesnt commit one of the "automatics" (NCAA FR-93 Rule 9-2-1-a), or something equally egregious, I cant see flagging this.
But as someone else already mentioned, without video and context, its hard to speculate.
You misunderstand. No pre-meditated, planned out celebrations -- but a quick high five, hug a teammate etc. is what you are looking for. When a player does something by himself, he risks prolonging the act, which is then an act designed to draw attention to yourself which is the UNS foul. So, quick knee and point, probably okay . . . but you take the knee and point for 4 seconds probably a flag . . . Best not to get into timing -- so find a teammate, high five and hugs all around as you are heading off the field, and save the prayer for he sideline.
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I will not be surprised to see the additional suspension overturned. After a USC from an argument earlier, we were always careful to make sure that the next act begged for the ejection. Do Not go gunning for anyone. This player is walking out of the endzone with a hand raised. We do not have an audio to hear whether or not the player is shouting "Praise God" or anything else.
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The BJ was awfully quick on that flag. The question almost asks itself. What was the first UNS for?
If it was for a similar act but longer and designed to draw attention, I could see going with a flag on this. Did it once and got flagged. Doing it again (no matter how small) is daring them to throw a flag.
I'm not sure if that's what happened here but it seems plausible given how small the act was and how quickly the BJ launched that flag.
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I live here in AZ. The AIA overturned the ejection, He can play next week in the playoffs http://www.abc15.com/news/region-west-valley/el-mirage/el-mirage-football-player-ejection-overturned-pedro-banda-to-play-in-playoff-game-friday
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I watched the game on HUDL hoping to see the first USC, couldn't find it. However looking at the second USC, I can see why the umpire threw the flag unless the player said something with the gesture. I do wish that the people who are discussing this would put in the fact that he wasn't ejected because of the gesture. He was ejected because of the 2nd USC. My guess is, if the first USC hadn't happened, we would not have even heard about him being called for the gesture.
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This seems counter to what I have seen taught. Granted, I am relatively new and dont have anywhere close to 20 years...I've been taught that group celebrations are more likely to draw flags.
Spontaneous short celebration with several teammates: :thumbup
"Doing choreography": ^flag