RefStripes.com
Football Officiating => General Discussion => Topic started by: hefnerjm on December 01, 2015, 10:15:50 PM
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Like Cam Newton or not, this is pretty funny :)
Props to the stripes for keeping it light on the sidelines.
https://www.facebook.com/MEMES.of.the.NFL/videos/1035994573113897/ (https://www.facebook.com/MEMES.of.the.NFL/videos/1035994573113897/)
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Disrespectful to me, not funny at all.
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If that was me on his sideline, I wouldn't be happy with it. Granted, my inner-Minnesotan would come out and I'd be all passive aggressive, smile and nod but not reply.
I've got a job to do, not joke and laugh with players on the sideline -- then he thinks I'm a jerk because I'm not responding to him.
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This happened to me a lot when I was officiating in my 20's. I remember working a soccer game and players were asking me if I was still in High School. I think i was about 27 or 28 and had 4 children. We baby face people have to learn to roll with it or it just eats at you. Now at 46, I wish i will had that.
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Exactly the damn problem with all this "Social Media" BS, sometimes conversations are clearly meant to be private between the principals. Remember when eavesdropping was considered to be rude and impolite, maybe wouldn't be a bad idea to go back there.
The fact we now CAN do it, doesn't mean we automatically SHOULD. When WE feel disrespected, WE can choose how to deal with it, preferable without a worldwide audience listening in.
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I wouldn't have a problem with it, we should have fun while we are out there and enjoy the moment, he was just picking with him, no ill intent
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I think we could all stand a little more self-deprecating humor in our lives...I thought it was funny and so I thought id share....sorry others dont agree.
In other news, can someone please get Rodgers his mojo back?
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I think some of you guys need to relax. He's not being malicious. He's not implying that it is affecting the official's abilities. He's having a little fun with the guy. I get the same comments all the time, and half of them are from my own crew members.
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Disrespectful to me, not funny at all.
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I was very funny, loosen them bolts Skylar.
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OMG he's back.
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We baby face people have to learn to roll with it or it just eats at you.
My son started officiating in his 20's, but looked younger. I advised him to
not shave on game days in an effort to appear older than he looked, and also
to pitch his voice lower when speaking to coaches.
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My son started officiating in his 20's, but looked younger. I advised him to
not shave on game days in an effort to appear older than he looked, and also
to pitch his voice lower when speaking to coaches.
In my early 30s, I still wear a beard, both for work and for officiating...because if I dont, I look 12. Hopefully it will serve me well when I get into my 40s and 50s tiphat:
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Y'all are allowed to have beards?
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Wearing a beard while officiating is rather unprofessional if it's anything above the sub varsity level
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Beards are in at the moment. Stubble's been popular for the last ten years or so. Is your association really so well-off for potential new young members that it can afford to play facial hair fashion police? This isn't the Army.
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Wearing a beard while officiating is rather unprofessional if it's anything above the sub varsity level
when first_year_guy talks like a salty dog. LOL
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I would hope officials would "police" themselves out of respect for the game and the job they are performing
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Don't shave, so people will think your older and therefore better? How about just don't suck.
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Beards are in at the moment. Stubble's been popular for the last ten years or so.
being up to date on all the trends is definitely important.
Cool and trendy > professional
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That's fine, just don't look confused the next time the question "Why are we having trouble recruiting new young members?" comes up. There's no inarguable Platonic ideal of what "professional" looks like, not even among officials in American-based sports.
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Lol "I can't rock a beard for 3 months? I quit."
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Don't shave, so people will think your older and therefore better? How about just don't suck.
Like it or not, perception is reality in many people's views.
My perception is that you must have slept through grammar class.
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Lol "I can't rock a beard for 3 months? I quit."
I can live without football if the price is having to look like Beaver Cleaver's dad for three months, yeah. You might be surprised how many other people feel the same way. Guess we're just those self-absorbed millennials I keep reading about in the paper.
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My perception is that you must have slept through grammar class.
Lol gotta love grammar nazi guy
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Don't shave, so people will think your older and therefore better? How about just don't suck.
Wasnt saying that looking older = perceived as a better official...My comment was to why I personally wear a beard...so I dont look 12. (hence the relevance to the OP)
My professionalism is reflected by the quality of my calls...want to judge me on that, and I will accept any criticism you have.
However, to say simply that having a beard = bad official...thats a bridge too far.
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Wasnt saying that looking older = perceived as a better official...My comment was to why I personally wear a beard...so I dont look 12. (hence the relevance to the OP)
My professionalism is reflected by the quality of my calls...want to judge me on that, and I will accept any criticism you have.
However, to say simply that having a beard = bad official...thats a bridge too far.
My comment was directed more towards Bama, he advised his son to grow beard and alter his voice when talking to coaches. Lol
There's a lot more to professional than how many CCs you get. I never said having a beard makes you a bad official, but more than likely your officiating career will end at the HS or JUCO level.
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Lol gotta love grammar nazi guy
Nazi.
I rest my case.
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My son started officiating in his 20's, but looked younger. I advised him to
not shave on game days in an effort to appear older than he looked, and also
to pitch his voice lower when speaking to coaches.
Father of the year award.
Hey son, don't prove to the coaches you belong there by your performance, you should try to disguise who you are.
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Nazi.
I rest my case.
U steal jus werkin hy skool ball?
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I have worn a beard and never had it off for the last 30 years. I work in the financial industry so I think "unprofessional" is just kind of ridiculous at this point. I keep mine because of some scars from a car accident. If your association feels that clean shaven is better than a decade of experience including playoff assignments, good luck to you but you may wish to reconsider.
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U steal jus werkin hy skool ball?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jaSoo9hPi4
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The idea that beards are unprofessional is promoted by people who can't grow good beards. (And by people who don't understand that you can have a beard and not look like a Duck Dynasty reject.)
The idea that you can't officiate well with facial hair has always been bizarre but fortunately is held by far fewer people now than ever. I've worn a beard for the last 15 years and it's never affected my assignments nor my real world career in what is considered a "professional" field.
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I really couldn't care less if a crew member sported a beard during a game, but if my boss tells me they do not like their employees having a beard, then I'm not gonna grow a beard. It amazes me how much this bothers some.
My main issue with this, is that people say grow a beard to make you look older so the coach will respect. That is so dumb and if you actually think that then you're probably not very good. My first year on a varsity crew I was 25 and the coach from the othe sideline yelled, "is he even old enough to shave?!" I laughed and thought good one coach, but I'm also at the same level as you.
Bubba Stripes, would you mind proof reading this for me?
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I think some of you are missing the point of the advice bama_stripes is giving his son. When I started, I was 21 and looked about 12. I caught all kinds of hell from coaches because I looked so young. Another official started the same year as I did who was about 10 years older than me and looked his age. He didn't catch nearly as much flack as I did. I'm convinced it was because I looked so young. Some of the coaches even made comments that I was terrible because of my age (or perceived age).
My first couple of years were rough because of this and there have been many leave the avocation because of things like this. If we can give some advice (like bama_stripes has given his son) that will enable an official's first few years to be more positive, there's a great chance they will stay with it for the long haul. If we are all honest with ourselves, none of us were very good our first year or two. Looking young just gives the coaches more ammo for unwarranted criticism. None of us need that...especially those of us who are trying to get our feet under us and figure out the game of football. Bama_stripes, I applaud you for trying to make it a little easier on your son.
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This is truly insane to me that coaches get into your heads this much. Coaches will try to "work" every official, young or old, until they know what they can get away with. I don't know why y'all are so caught up in what coaches think anyway, you should only be worried about your supervisor. If there was ever a "perfect official" a coach somewhere will still disagree with him about something.
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I have just completed my 13th season as an official. I personally don't see a problem with Cam on this one. I've always taken the approach that if you are cool with the players they will be cool with you, which I believe helps in situations where teammates are getting a little out of control. Players see me as a regular guy they can come to with an issue, not some zebra striped meany that's just there to yell and penalize. I had a kick returner tell me I was the nicest referee he's met. I appreciated that. There are times we must be pro-active and forceful but not all the time.
As for the beard, our association is anti-beard. Mainly bc how many people can grow a nice looking one? Also how many that can, will actually keep it neatly trimmed and not look like a hobo? I don't mind the rule but I also only prefer facial hair during the winter anyways. To each thier own I say.
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This is truly insane to me that coaches get into your heads this much. Coaches will try to "work" every official, young or old, until they know what they can get away with. I don't know why y'all are so caught up in what coaches think anyway, you should only be worried about your supervisor. If there was ever a "perfect official" a coach somewhere will still disagree with him about something.
You're simply wrong. It get's into coach's heads. Coach's stopped trying to work me almost entirely the season I grew a beard.
That's beside the point though. Supervisors shouldn't have any more say in your facial hair than they have in your regular hair. No one would support a supervisor who required all officials to be shaved bald.
As for the beard, our association is anti-beard. Mainly bc how many people can grow a nice looking one? Also how many that can, will actually keep it neatly trimmed and not look like a hobo? I don't mind the rule but I also only prefer facial hair during the winter anyways. To each thier own I say.
How many of your officials manage to keep their hair neatly trimmed? Those will be the same ones keeping their beards neatly trimmed. You don't lose your ability to maintain your personal hygiene just because you grow a beard.
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This is truly insane to me that coaches get into your heads this much. Coaches will try to "work" every official, young or old, until they know what they can get away with. I don't know why y'all are so caught up in what coaches think anyway, you should only be worried about your supervisor. If there was ever a "perfect official" a coach somewhere will still disagree with him about something.
I think you're still missing the point. We aren't talking about me, you, or anyone on here who has been working for quite a while. Coaches don't get into my head anymore, but to expect a first year official (at 21 years old) to be mature enough to not let it get to them a little is a huge expectation (and probably unrealistic). One unnecessary distraction is too many for an official who is getting his feet wet. If he can make a small change to lose that unnecessary distraction, I say go for it.
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Coach's stopped trying to work me almost entirely the season I grew a beard.
Lol "this guy has a beard. I'm gonna back off, he knows what he's doing."
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That's beside the point though. Supervisors shouldn't have any more say in your facial hair than they have in your regular hair. No one would support a supervisor who required all officials to be shaved bald.
Supervisors do measure officials BMI, waist, how fast you can run 3 miles, etc. this is because they want their officials looking a certain way on tv.
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Lol "this guy has a beard. I'm gonna back off, he knows what he's doing."
No, it's that I no longer looked like I was 13. Whether you can comprehend it or not, apparent age makes a big difference in how coaches interact with officials. Why, I can even imagine it might lead to a professional player having a bit of fun at the expense of a young looking official.
Supervisors do measure officials BMI, waist, how fast you can run 3 miles, etc. this is because they want their officials looking a certain way on tv.
No, these have actual correlation to their physical fitness and ability to perform their duties, something that they do not share with facial hair.
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I have just completed my 13th season as an official. I personally don't see a problem with Cam on this one. I've always taken the approach that if you are cool with the players they will be cool with you, which I believe helps in situations where teammates are getting a little out of control. Players see me as a regular guy they can come to with an issue, not some zebra striped meany that's just there to yell and penalize. I had a kick returner tell me I was the nicest referee he's met. I appreciated that. There are times we must be pro-active and forceful but not all the time.
Absolutely agree, I've found the best approach is, "Be nice, until circumstances call for not being nice".
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No, it's that I no longer looked like I was 13. Whether you can comprehend it or not, apparent age makes a big difference in how coaches interact with officials.
Or maybe it was because you became a decent official and stopped sucking. Nah, you right, it was the beard.
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My son started officiating in his 20's, but looked younger. I advised him to
not shave on game days in an effort to appear older than he looked, and also
to pitch his voice lower when speaking to coaches.
Bama, I understand you point, but I have to disagree with you. I don't care whether an official has a beard or not. My point is that whatever hair you have, or don't have, you should be well-groomed. If most people arrive at a game not having shaved that day, they end up looking sloppy, and giving the impression they are lazy rather than the intended impression of added age.
I don't know your son, he may be able to pull that look off. But I know if I were to arrive at a game unshaven, I would either be told to shave, or be pulled off the field and sent to work the clock.
Whether we like it or not we are judged by our appearances first. Why make it harder on ourselves than it needs to be by creating a negative impression?
For whatever it is worth, I have always been told to dress for the job you want, rather than the one you have. Looking up the ladder, I don't see a whole lot of officials with any kind of facial hair in either the NCAA or NFL. Not sure if its a rule or not, but I would tend to mirror my appearance to them. One day soon I hope to have biceps like Ed Hoculi ;D
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I don't know your son, he may be able to pull that look off. But I know if I were to arrive at a game unshaven, I would either be told to shave, or be pulled off the field and sent to work the clock.
Whether we like it or not we are judged by our appearances first. Why make it harder on ourselves than it needs to be by creating a negative impression?
I completely understand your point, and agree for the most part. In my particular instance, my son is a "ginger", and he had what most would consider a "five-o'clock shadow". As the crew chief, I didn't have any more problem with his appearance than with the other crew members who did shave that morning.
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My personal opinion is facial hair on an official doesn't look professional. It doesn't make them a better or worse official, but it does affect my perception of the crew. Just like a crew that shows up in shorts or t-shirts or wears shirts with faded or yellow stripes or a dirty hat, or extremely overweight. Other than possibly weight (I know some very good heavy officials who are much better than fit officials), none of those affect your ability to officiate. But it speaks to how you approach the avocation. Feel free to wear jeans on off days or facial hair in the off season, but if you want to look professional, work clean shaven.
In HS we don't have enough officials that you can be too picky. But if I were ever to hire or assign officials, I would likely pick more professional crews if possible. But if you have any plans to advance to college officiating, don't plan to keep your facial hair. It will be a show stopper.
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Hey if a beard is good enough for the Speaker of the House.... :sTiR:
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My personal opinion is facial hair on an official doesn't look professional.
I've never worn a beard (on purpose) and don't ever expect to start wearing one, but beards and officials seems a lot like "much ado aboutr nothing". Over a lot of years, I've come to believe the only people who care (a lick) about superficial nonsense, are other officials or people who can't find anything legitimate to complain about us about, so they choose various forms of nitpicking.
Aside from someone being sloppy or unkept (and knowing how and when to properly sell important calls), what we do is way more important than how we look doing it.
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Work on knowing your craft instead of the con on the beard. Anyone with a tad bit of seasoning will see right through the charade.
Work on player relationship and coach relationship building .... it becomes fun until there is a reason not to be fun.
Semi Pro Game, Worst example of discipline I've ever experienced 34 flags in the first half. Just before the first half ended we had a bad injury. Waiting on the player to be removed a linebacker walks over. He and I have been talking all night so far. He rests his forearm on my shoulder. "Jesus loves you" I am thinking, I'm being set up. "Don't tell me your name is Jesus" (Spanish pronunciation) "Shoot no man, my name is Frank." "Ok, tell you what Frank, Jesus and I will love you a whole lot more if you stay out of the neutral zone." Laughing, He said "OK Ref, we'll take care of that." Second half, four flags total.
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This is truly insane to me that coaches get into your heads this much. Coaches will try to "work" every official, young or old, until they know what they can get away with.
A suggestion I've used with a number of linebackers (successfully) who seem overly concerned with opponent's comments, "There's only room inside your helmet for one brain, if you allow someone else to dictate your behavior, you won't like the results". Might apply to officials who focus too much on what's said outside the sideline.
If it's something worth dealing with immediately, deal with it, if not, ignore it until it's becomes worth dealing with.
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"Why are we having trouble recruiting new young members?" comes up.
Agree. yEs:
Some of the best young officials ^talk in our association have facial hair and they also have professional jobs tiphat:. Many of the coaches and a.d.'s in our area have facial hair. Acting as the grooming police P_S is the least of the worries in our association.
We need to be thinking of better ways to recruit and retain officials. IMHO, mustaches and beards are personal choices. Who are we to judge? :sTiR:
Full disclosure: I'm clean shaven. ;D
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I am going to reiterate what some above have said...How many NCAA and NFL officials do you see with facial hair? There is a reason for this number.
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Sorry, I must have missed the bit where everyone's association is as oversubscribed for new officials as NCAA and NFL are.
(PS: They're still wrong.)
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As I said earlier, I don't have an issue with officials having facial hair, as long as it, and the rest of his body, is well groomed. We have a few officials who have facial hair, but it is always neatly trimmed.
My objection would be to those officials who don't shave that day. I know I am making a rather sweeping generalization here, but in my experience, for someone who has the problem of already looking young, 1 day of not shaving is typically not enough to grow a full beard, and as a result, they still look young, but now add sloppy to it, and it will compound the problem.
I would hope that most people would not go into their day jobs ungroomed, why should this be any different?
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As I said earlier, I don't have an issue with officials having facial hair, as long as it, and the rest of his body, is well groomed. We have a few officials who have facial hair, but it is always neatly trimmed.
My objection would be to those officials who don't shave that day. I know I am making a rather sweeping generalization here, but in my experience, for someone who has the problem of already looking young, 1 day of not shaving is typically not enough to grow a full beard, and as a result, they still look young, but now add sloppy to it, and it will compound the problem.
I would hope that most people would not go into their day jobs ungroomed, why should this be any different?
I agree with you here. If you're wearing a beard, wear a beard. This is not the same as only not shaving on game day. Don't go to a game with stubble. If you're going to wear a beard during the season, it's going to have to be grown before the season.
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Here is my point...
1. As I said earlier officials in the NCAA and NFL do not have beards. In my NCAA conference (Div. 3), we have 0 beards and 1 mustache (I think). There is a reason for these numbers...
2. If you want to wear facial hair at the lower levels, knock yourself out, but know this you most likely will not advance. Some College Coordinators will want to see a film before even talking to you, and you may lose a chance at a good first impression by having a beard. You may knock yourself out of contention before the Coordinator looks at one call.
3. Right or wrong does not really matter, it is the way it is. (I am not going to argue what is right or wrong)
4. Officials, generally, are not allowed the luxury of individual expression anymore, and that is exactly what a beard is. Anything that makes you stand out like facial hair, visible tattoos, etc. are usually discouraged.
4. These are just some coaching points for any individual who may want to advance, do not put yourself at any disadvantage before even starting.
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For 30 years (20 as a white hat) I shaved off my beard for football. The last two years I have kept the beard. My seasons have been just as successful; the level of respect from coaches and other officials has been just as high; playoff assignments have been just as plentiful. If I were trying to break into college football, I am sure I would still be shaving. I worked DI basketball for 15 years and always shaved a couple hours before the game to be as clean as possible. I agree with those who said that if you desire to move beyond high school, beards are still taboo. But wearing a beard has absolutely nothing to do with how professional an official is or how well they call a game,
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3. Right or wrong does not really matter, it is the way it is. (I am not going to argue what is right or wrong)
Yes, it's the way it is. But it is most certainly wrong. And that does matter.
4. Officials, generally, are not allowed the luxury of individual expression anymore, and that is exactly what a beard is. Anything that makes you stand out like facial hair, visible tattoos, etc. are usually discouraged.
I'm sorry, this is just staggering. A beard is no more an individual expression than the way you cut your hair and I have yet to see anyone require a standardized haircut.
I start believing beards make a difference in the viewed professionalism of an official when coordinators start requiring officials to shave bald for the same reason.
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I'm sorry, this is just staggering. A beard is no more an individual expression than the way you cut your hair and I have yet to see anyone require a standardized haircut.
Require? No. But I had a ponytail when I started officiating and I certainly caught all sorts of flak about it, from coaches and other officials.
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I have no problem with facial hair with one exception ......
If any of the women officials in the Association show with facial hair ..... I retire.
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I am beardless and eventually shaved off the mustache when I realized it would never look like Tom Selleck's. I am fully aware that the NCAA and up aren't fans of facial hair. They are also looking for tall, lean, athletic, younger looking dudes these days too. If I fit that profile, I'd worry about how my facial hair looks. Since I don't, I fortunately don't have to consider it.
I imagine those that do fit the latest profile can decide if they need to shave it off to succeed or not.