RefStripes.com
Football Officiating => General Discussion => Topic started by: mostripes on August 18, 2016, 02:54:36 PM
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Not sure what other areas of the country are doing.. but Missouri decided to bite the bullet, take a leap, be part of the revolution (however you would feel to label it).. they have approved the use of WCCDs (Wireless Communication Crew Devices). My crew is the one and only that has not jumped in with both feet to be part of the cool crowd and add these to our officiating tool bag. Just curious if other states are allowing them, if so has your crew purchased them, and if you have used them what are your thoughts?
It seems like there are still so many unknowns and potential boogers. There's no minimum standard for the devices other than push to talk and that they can only be used during dead ball periods, and not when a snap is imminent, and the communication can not be offensive, etc. Some suggested uses include Ball placement, Clock management, Goal line reminders, Positions on tries, Line to gain confirmations, Foul Reporting, Sideline issues, Player conduct concerns, Confirmation of rulings, Penalty Enforcement options, Kickoffs OOB, and other unusual situations.
Most crews I've talked with are purchasing regular 2-way radios that can be purchased at Bass Pro, etc.. and even with multiple channel options.. none or a closed system where the channels couldn't be located by someone scanning the channel options. I've looked into some of them, but once you go past a certain feature level.. it's required to purchase an FCC license ($90/ 5-yr) to operate within certain channels.
I love technology as much as the next guy, but we aren't utilizing $2000 systems that NCAA/NFL leagues are utilizing and we are working in crews of 5 versus much larger crews.
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One thing to remember with the O2O systems is that they are not a substitute for normal mechanics. Basically, if you have to run to tell someone something, then use the O2O. But don't use it for "I have 11", "My receiver is off the line", etc. There are already mechanics for that.
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Our association has gone all in on radios. We purchased 60 radios and 68 headsets (not wireless). I will let everyone know how it goes. Several of our guys have used them in state championship games over the last 4 years and were pleased with the results. My crew of 7 is in the biggest stadium in our area tonight so we will get to give them a good shakedown. We have already had a pregame meeting to discuss protocol, which I am sure will evolve over time. Our clock operator will also have a radio, which may facilitate the best use of all, quickly correcting clock errors.
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In KS, not MO. I personally thought the MO policy was thoughtful, well written and gives good guidance.
KS has no policy, our crew is using them this year and we're following the MO policy. A little bit of use will tell us more about where all the alligators are hiding.
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We have a few crews using them in our area. They all seem to like them. The crew working my son's game last night had them
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Not approved for use in Arkansas.
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Our first week with the radios was a success. There were 7 or 8 situations during the game where the radios made communication significantly clearer and much more timely. We probably used the radio for something on approximately 25% of the plays. Other crews in our association reported similar experiences. Getting a quick answer on the option a coach preferred on penalty enforcement and the ability to get foul information from the deep officials much quicker were the biggest advantages we found in week one.
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Texas approved them for use a year or two ago. I bought a set and we tried it in a scrimmage and really liked it. I think there has to be some ground rules on what to communicate and when and what to let go so you don't just get a lot of unnecessary chatter.
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Interesting to hear positive responses. I suggested our crew try them but my crew chief shot it down saying "All the college guys who use them hate it."
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Interesting to hear positive responses. I suggested our crew try them but my crew chief shot it down saying "All the college guys who use them hate it."
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Wow, that is the opposite feedback I have heard from college guys...
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Interesting to hear positive responses. I suggested our crew try them but my crew chief shot it down saying "All the college guys who use them hate it."
That's the opposite of what I'm hearing as well. All the college guys down here are using them and bringing them into HS. Personally I've used them twice and I love them. I need more time with them and establishing some ground rules. But overall would use again, just buy yourself a good ear piece cause the first time I used them was a cheap one and it kept falling out of ear and was uncomfortable and distracting.
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The college officials I talk to love them as well. Several HS crews have used them the past couple years and there seems to be a huge increase in the number of crews this year. We are using them and have had them for 3 scrimmages and a game. We replaced the ear pieces that came with them already and much prefer the new ones for comfort. They have helped immensely in several situations, and I highly recommend them.
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The college officials I talk to love them as well. Several HS crews have used them the past couple years and there seems to be a huge increase in the number of crews this year. We are using them and have had them for 3 scrimmages and a game. We replaced the ear pieces that came with them already and much prefer the new ones for comfort. They have helped immensely in several situations, and I highly recommend them.
My experience as well. This is the second year for our crew, and we're getting much more comfortable with when & how to use them.
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In KS, not MO. I personally thought the MO policy was thoughtful, well written and gives good guidance.
KS has no policy, our crew is using them this year and we're following the MO policy. A little bit of use will tell us more about where all the alligators are hiding.
Where can one find the MO policy? We don't use them extensively - two games last year. During that 1st game we had some issues I'm sure most 1st timers have to work thru but I trust we'll see a day when they are common place.
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I'm still learning how to post things in here.. I'm attempting to attach the PDF here.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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I'm still learning how to post things in here.. I'm attempting to attach the PDF here.
You did it right. :thumbup
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Do any of you guys who suggested replacing the ear pieces happen to remember which ones you went with?
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Does anyone else think it's odd MO strictly prohibits them in sub-varsity? I know I'd want to get the hang of using them there before using them in varsity contests.
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Does anyone else think it's odd MO strictly prohibits them in sub-varsity? I know I'd want to get the hang of using them there before using them in varsity contests.
That thought crossed my mind as soon as I read it. I'm guessing less experienced officials normally work lower levels and MO wants them to concentrate on the basics, rather than worrying about radios.
Is there anyone from Missouri who can confirm the rationale?
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I hadn't heard anything related to the rationale behind it, but I too, whole heartedly agree that having time to use these devices other than just on Friday nights would have been very welcomed. Instead we are meeting earlier than normal on Friday to go over set up wearing, operating, etc.. and hope it works out.
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One of my crew members attended the Mo clinic and he indicated exactly the thought about learning appropriate mechanics and signals. Not sure if he heard this officially, or just through a conversation
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I'm still learning how to post things in here.. I'm attempting to attach the PDF here.
Thanks!
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We ain't heard of them there fancy gizmo's up in Maine. Passed on the ole' reliable 2 tin cans connected by string, too. 'Spect the players might trip over it. I might have an interest if this here gizmo could pick up the Red Sox games. tR:oLl tR:oLl
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I might have an interest if this here gizmo could pick up the Red Sox games. tR:oLl tR:oLl
The ones we use CAN pickup over-the-air broadcasts. 'Spect you could catch a couple of innings during halftime.
cRaZy cRaZy
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The ones we use CAN pickup over-the-air broadcasts. 'Spect you could catch a couple of innings during halftime.
cRaZy cRaZy
.....or call for a measurement if the Sox had the winning run at 3rd ;) ;)! We haven't had drone worries yet. This will probably come after that.
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The MO guidelines are much less restrictive than what we have in TX. The equipment we are forced to use will be in excess of $1,000 to $1,200 for a crew of 5. That severely limits who will be willing to spring for one of these systems. Since we use NCAA rules, I think our high school organization wants to identically enforce the same rules those guys are following.
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If you are not limited to specific technology (spread spectrum, full duplex, band requirements, etc) these are about the most bullet proof little radios you can get. These are made in and ship from China. As a ham radio operator, I have a handful of these and they are very good radios. They can broadcast in VHF and UHF bands, have CTCSS codes, and have a wide range of mics and antennas available. The batteries are rechargeable and they all come with drop-in chargers. You can get extra rechargeable batteries very cheap as well as weather proof cases. In this ebay post, the radios alone are about $25 apiece from China, about 1/4 the price you can find in the US. You do need to make sure the frequency you use is not one that conflicts with other uses. There is also another radio of this same brand that sell for about $15 apiece but you have to program them with a computer via USB connection.
htp://www.ebay.com/itm/5x-Baofeng-UV-5R-V-UHF-136-174-400-520M-Dual-Band-Two-wHam-Radio-Transceiver-/141683736764?hash=item20fd0240bc:g:6qgAAOSwRQlXe3fr (http://htp://www.ebay.com/itm/5x-Baofeng-UV-5R-V-UH-174-400-520M-Dual-Band-Two-way-Ham-Radio-Transceiver-/141683736764?hash=item20fd0240bc:g:6qgAAOSwRQlXe3fr)
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Doc
Several local crews are already using cheap radios and have given the hand to TASO. I'd do the same if I could turn back time. There are ow at least 2 Div II, 1 Div 1 FCS, and 1 Div 1 FBS that are using the same $40 dollar unencrypted walkie-talkies.
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Yeah, I expect TASO to change the policy. They are worried that someone with a scanner will find the frequency and monitor it. OK, #1, so what. It isn't college ball. #2, you can use a frequency that's very hard to find.
The benefits of using this equipment outweigh the slight risk someone will monitor the discussions. I would highly suggest no one use the cheap FRS radios. They are very easy to monitor and way too many people use them.
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So Doc, do these radios (the you mentioned on EBay) fill the bill for basic crew communications? What is the range on these? Are they simple line of sight or can they be picked up outside the stadium?
If these or any system, is being used for basic crew communications, foul calls, who cares if someone is dropping in?
Now if you are spotting blondes in the bleachers, that may be a different story.
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Cope, these do not meet current TASO standards so they cannot be used. I was just suggesting the guys in other states without such stringent requirements use them because they are very good and very inexpensive. If one goes out, heck, they are cheap enough to have several spares. They operate up to 5W with the stock battery and up to 7.5W (I think) with the larger batteries. You can set these in low power and get a stub antenna for more attenuation even since the crew is in such close proximity. In other words, there is more than enough power, way more, on high.
As always, you have to be careful what you say. Speak as though the entire world is listening.
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As always, you have to be careful what you say. Speak as though the entire world is listening.
I think that is the major issue with some groups not allowing them. 99% of the officials would utilize them as a useful tool. Then there's that one guy..........
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We went with Moto 1020. Expensive little suckers but they are approved by our state org.
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So TASO backed off the full-duplex requirement? Good.
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No, they didn't Brad.
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They should. That's what driving the high costs. No reason to need full duplex.
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Agree completely!!!!
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Doc, is your crew currently using the Moto 1020?
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We did in the last game. Had a couple of issues. Spread spectrum synchronization can be a problem is one radio loses contact. Resyncing by turning radio on and off sometimes works, but many times everyone has to turn theirs off and then on again and then someone transmit.
It was a great experience. I hope to never have to officiate without radios again.