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Football Officiating => General Discussion => Topic started by: Umps R Us on November 06, 2016, 02:20:27 PM
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I watched a kid muff a punt @ his 7 yardline as he attempted to pick the ball up he kicked it into his end zone and K recovered it. The crew deliberated for @ 15 minutes got books out and finally determined this was a TD.
I understood all K kicks recovered in r's ez were a touch back as soon as the ball crossed the gl??? ^good
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I watched a kid muff a punt @ his 7 yardline as he attempted to pick the ball up he kicked it into his end zone and K recovered it. The crew deliberated for @ 15 minutes got books out and finally determined this was a TD.
I understood all K kicks recovered in r's ez were a touch back as soon as the ball crossed the gl??? ^good
TD. Touchback if the ball crosses the GL untouched. Since Team B, or Receiving Team, touched the ball -- the Kicking Team can recover -- but not advance. Recovery in the EZ = TD.
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This depends on which rule book we're following here, so you'll have to fill in that piece of information to get complete answer. I'm assuming by "kid" you're speaking of some level of play younger than college.
If you're playing by NFHS rules (most high schools), a kick is a kick until it is possessed. If it is muffed into the end zone (no possession), it's a kick into the end zone which is a touchback as soon as it enters the end zone (no possession required). If they had ruled that he had actually possessed the ball then fumbled, then the previous is irrelevant -- K can recover (and even advance) the fumble.
If you're playing by NCAA rules (Texas high schools, some private schools) or NFL rules (including semi-pro, which seems unlikely in this scenario), then K can recover the touched kick (but not advance), including in the end zone -- where it would be a touchdown.
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You may also have the issue of illegally kicking the ball to deal with, especially if the result of the play is something other than the ball being declared dead in the end zone.
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You may also have the issue of illegally kicking the ball to deal with, especially if the result of the play is something other than the ball being declared dead in the end zone.
I'm going to invoke Occam's Razor on this one and suggest that it was not an intentional kick until evidence is provided otherwise. In any case, since the illegal kick wouldn't change the status of the ball, that doesn't affect the ruling of the play if the penalty was declined -- and K couldn't accept said penalty if they wanted to keep possession of the live ball in R's end zone since it occurred prior to them gaining possession.
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A KICK IS A KICK, IS A KICK, IS STILL A KICK IF ILLEGALLY KICKED = TOUCHBACK.
PSK WOULD APPLY, R'S BALL @ 3 1/2...
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A KICK IS A KICK, IS A KICK, IS STILL A KICK IF ILLEGALLY KICKED = TOUCHBACK.
PSK WOULD APPLY, R'S BALL @ 3 1/2...
Not NCAA or Texas or MA. Yes, a Kick, but Team A is eligible to recover a ball touched in the field of play. Ball in Team A possession in Team B EZ = TD. Premise of question I think is no illegal kick -- just a muff (touched ball). But even if an illegal kick foul -- Team A declines the penalty and takes the result of the play = TD.
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Not NCAA or Texas or MA. Yes, a Kick, but Team A is eligible to recover a ball touched in the field of play. Ball in Team A possession in Team B EZ = TD. Premise of question I think is no illegal kick -- just a muff (touched ball). But even if an illegal kick foul -- Team A declines the penalty and takes the result of the play = TD.
Thanks for clarifying, Dallas, I should have specified NFHS.
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Whether it was a muff or an illegal kick, it would still be a touchback when it crossed the goal line. No way for A to gain possession in the end zone since the kick would be dead when it crossed goal line.
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Let me clarify a few things.
1) A high School Game
2) Ohio
3) No illegal kicking ruled
4) ruled muff not a fumble.
After deliberation (15 minutes) ruled a Touchdown.
Game finished 15-7.
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Given this scenario, under NFHS rules, should have been ruled a touchback, R's ball 1/10 from the 20.
Kick is dead as soon as it breaks R's goal line.
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edited: oh,never mind, read that totally wrong....yea, that sounds like a missed one. TB if no possession and fumble/illegal kick.
In the playoffs, too...that's gonna get noticed.
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Let me clarify a few things.
1) A high School Game
2) Ohio
3) No illegal kicking ruled
4) ruled muff not a fumble.
After deliberation (15 minutes) ruled a Touchdown.
Game finished 15-7.
On the one hand, folks around here are fond of saying that if anything is going to get screwed up, it's going to be with the kicking game.
On the other hand, we also tend to beat this particular play to death. There's really no way that this one should get past the entire crew. Now, it may be that the referee got the wrong ruling into his head and overruled one or more others on the crew. But this is still a pretty egregious miss.
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With the Info I was given. Yeah a hate to admit it but I think so....Game finished 15-7!!
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With the Info I was given. Yeah a hate to admit it but I think so....Game finished 15-7!!
Another example where video might be useful in making a clearer determination.