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Football Officiating => Texas Topics => Topic started by: centexsports on July 10, 2017, 03:18:26 PM
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I have been looking for the TASO policy that states that it is unacceptable to contact a coach prior to a Friday game to get information such as: Game Administrator, parking, dressing room location, game time, etc. Anybody know where it is? I will call TASO if I need to but I thought someone might know.
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I believe they are using that as an example of the Solicitation Policy.
http://taso.org/data/page/200/Solicitation%20Policy%204-2017.pdf
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That should not be prohibited!
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TASO should probably clarify this as being allowed or not. The two chapters I've worked in have different views on this, one saying it is not allowed because of the appearance of possible solicitation, and the other asks that you confirm details of the game with at least the home coach. Then again, if a chapter does not have coaches selections, solicitation would not be an issue. I think it is just being courteous to contact the home team coach just to confirm details. How could that be seen as soliciting a game?
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I think it is just being courteous to contact the home team coach just to confirm details. How could that be seen as soliciting a game?
Micro management. Or paranoia. Pick your poison.
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Without giving an answer to the TASO test, let me just say that the answer is very clear that what I asked is not acceptable.
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TASO should probably clarify this as being allowed or not. The two chapters I've worked in have different views on this, one saying it is not allowed because of the appearance of possible solicitation, and the other asks that you confirm details of the game with at least the home coach. Then again, if a chapter does not have coaches selections, solicitation would not be an issue. I think it is just being courteous to contact the home team coach just to confirm details. How could that be seen as soliciting a game?
I think that if you communicate before the game like this, you should probably at least "cc" the visiting team coach.
My comment obviously assumes that pregame contact is acceptable. It is. If it's not, the schools should provide a pregame contact person.
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If confirming details of a game, especially a playoff game at a neutral site, is not allowed by contacting a coach, schools need to define a contact person not associated directly with the team. I'm very sure many R's contact coaches before games to confirm details.
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Or how about the call to the coach,
" we are running late because of (pick a reason). Just wanted you to be aware, we will be there and ready by game time!
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So you're telling me that asking for information about a game that I've already been assigned like where to park and confirming kickoff time, is somehow the same as soliciting future assignments? pi1eOn hEaDbAnG
:sTiR: :sTiR: Of course, if coaches didn't have any input in assignments, this wouldn't be an issue... :sTiR: :sTiR:
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We tell our guys to contact the assignor if they need to know that information. The game time is already known as per the schedule. The administrator we find out when we get to the game site. I can see where parking and dressing may be an issue if it's a place you never been, but we just wing it. Get there early and drive around until we find someone that looks like they have a clue. ;D
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We tell our guys to contact the assignor if they need to know that information. The game time is already known as per the schedule. The administrator we find out when we get to the game site. I can see where parking and dressing may be an issue if it's a place you never been, but we just wing it. Get there early and drive around until we find someone that looks like they have a clue. ;D
In smaller chapters that might work very well. But in chapters that are covering 60 to 100+ varsity games a week, it just isn't possible.
I really don't see why a quick phone call or email to a coach to confirm details is in any way solicitation. You aren't asking for a game, you're taking a profession approach to servicing your customer, IMHO. We need to quit being so darned paranoid.
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I agree with Jason. Sorry, Doc, but it IS possible in chapters large and small. I always go to both school's websites to confirm the game and time. If there is something that doesn't jive, I get in touch with the secretary. If you want to find out where to dress, there is always an official who worked that school last week or last year so call them. I've found that schools, especially smaller ones, often change the location of our locker room. It varies by school, but 75% of the time, someone is there on site to lead us to the right place when we arrive. In the end, it is sometimes a hassle to get everyone to the right place if we didn't all arrive at the same time, but sooner or later we get in, get dressed, and then go out and go to work.
Have you ever missed a game or been substantially late due to the fact that you couldn't figure out where to dress?
I think the better idea is to get the chapter on board to file a report every time there isn't a game administrator there to meet you (or in the area somewhere). Put UIL to task on something they supposedly require.
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I agree with Jason. Sorry, Doc, but it IS possible in chapters large and small. I always go to both school's websites to confirm the game and time. If there is something that doesn't jive, I get in touch with the secretary. If you want to find out where to dress, there is always an official who worked that school last week or last year so call them. I've found that schools, especially smaller ones, often change the location of our locker room. It varies by school, but 75% of the time, someone is there on site to lead us to the right place when we arrive. In the end, it is sometimes a hassle to get everyone to the right place if we didn't all arrive at the same time, but sooner or later we get in, get dressed, and then go out and go to work.
Have you ever missed a game or been substantially late due to the fact that you couldn't figure out where to dress?
I think the better idea is to get the chapter on board to file a report every time there isn't a game administrator there to meet you (or in the area somewhere). Put UIL to task on something they supposedly require.
Secretaries are typically clueless about details and I know very few athletic departments that have a secretary. I think you hit on the problem when you say "figure out where to dress." Why would you even let your crew worry about that when a simple email would answer that question, and where to park, letting the coach know you will be there, etc, etc. The real crux of the issue that needs to be answered is, how can contacting a coach or athletic director to confirm details of a game be considered solicitation? That's what we need an answer to.
Seriously, how many of us go to church with coaches and their families, see them in the grocery store, see them at other athletic events, see them at other meetings, or see them in any other public setting outside of the stadium? Are you not supposed to talk about football with them? Come on. That's just not realistic.
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This is part of the solicitation policy. One could argue that if the contact was for any other purpose than what's listed below, the contact is not solicitation. But, this does seem to contradict the first paragraph in a way.
An individual member SHALL NOT:
1. Influence, request or communicate, directly or indirectly, with a coach, athletic director, assigning authority or
an athletic governing body to enhance the opportunity for ones’ assignments in contest which are assigned by
any TASO Chapter
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deadhorse:
Ever gone to a game and found out that you brought a chain crew/timers and the stadium provides them?
Ever gone to a game and found another chapter also assigned officials to that game?
Yup.
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Or got to the game and the AD ask "where is your chain crew?"
I only have a degree in Earth Sciences, so a bag of rocks are as smart as me. But I read #1 ---
1. Influence, request or communicate, directly or indirectly, with a coach, athletic director, assigning authority or
an athletic governing body to enhance the opportunity for ones’ assignments in contest which are assigned by
any TASO Chapter
How in the hell can asking game details fall under that? That's like, some people drive drunk, so now no one can drink anymore.
Where is Luke when we need him, "What we have here is a failure to communicate"
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I can see the issue with larger chapters. In regards to the chain crew response. We don't supply chain crews so no issue for us.
On the main topic. In my opinion the inquiry for the information may not be solicitation at first but that one email could open the door to further communication.
Official: "Coach, I would like to confirm the game time, dressing area, administrator etc"
Coach: "You will dress on the North side and game time is 7:00. John Doe will meet you at 5:00"
Official: "Thank you for the information. We are looking forward to working for you and your team"
Coach: "No problem, we look forward to having you. I've heard good things about you and your crew"
After game: Coach: "You guys did a great job last night"
Official: "Thanks for the comment. We would love to work for you again"
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How about:
After game: Coach: "You guys did a great job last night"
Official: "Thanks for the comment. We would love to work for you again" We appreciated the opportunity
Still appreciative, but not moving into solicitation territory.
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Come on fellas. A simple email to the coach is completely fine. He knows a crew is actually coming.
"Coach,
Here is the crew. Just confirming kickoff is still 7:30. We will arrive at XXXX. Where do we dress? We will have our pregame meeting at 6:15."
If your concerned about "soliciting" from an email to the coach confirming game time and dressing facilities might as well eliminate the pregame meeting. I can see more things going wrong there than in an email on Tuesday. However, emails or conversations after the game are a HUGE no-no.
just my 2 cents
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Come on fellas. A simple email to the coach is completely fine. He knows a crew is actually coming.
"Coach,
Here is the crew. Just confirming kickoff is still 7:30. We will arrive at XXXX. Where do we dress? We will have our pregame meeting at 6:15."
If your concerned about "soliciting" from an email to the coach confirming game time and dressing facilities might as well eliminate the pregame meeting. I can see more things going wrong there than in an email on Tuesday. However, emails or conversations after the game are a HUGE no-no.
just my 2 cents
I agree. Maybe if the referee copies his chapter secretary on any emails to a coach. I would bet a lot of secretaries wouldn't want all that filling their in box though.
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I agree. Maybe if the referee copies his chapter secretary on any emails to a coach. I would bet a lot of secretaries wouldn't want all that filling their in box though.
As long as the secretary doesnt strive for "zero inbox" he will be fine. Those guys get copious emails as it is...and i agree that copying the secretary on any coach correspondence would certainly be a CYA against potential solicitation, while still allowing for common sense game-day communication. Especially in an environment where the constant refrain from coaches is that they want more and more communication from us.
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There isn't any reason that a Referee or any other official, for that matter, needs to email a coach the week before their game. All contact goes through the Assigning Secretary or his designee. If an official needs to confirm where to dress park or start time, then he gets it from the secretary. Your only contact with the coach should be when you get to the game site. In emergency situations, a phone call could be made to inform them that travel problems existed or something of that nature, but coaches don't want the crew emailing them with all of that information. They have said so. It goes through the secretary and then there is NO QUESTION about what is going on. It is no secret why the officials are doing this. Some of them are even calling the coach on the phone to do what is being done by email. Again, you can't do that either.
This isn't my two cents, this is the way it supposed to be.
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There isn't any reason that a Referee or any other official, for that matter, needs to email a coach the week before their game. All contact goes through the Assigning Secretary or his designee. If an official needs to confirm where to dress park or start time, then he gets it from the secretary. Your only contact with the coach should be when you get to the game site. In emergency situations, a phone call could be made to inform them that travel problems existed or something of that nature, but coaches don't want the crew emailing them with all of that information. They have said so. It goes through the secretary and then there is NO QUESTION about what is going on. It is no secret why the officials are doing this. Some of them are even calling the coach on the phone to do what is being done by email. Again, you can't do that either.
This isn't my two cents, this is the way it supposed to be.
I don't agree at all because, in my opinion, contacting a coach with a quick confirmation that officials will be there and any other details should never be considered solicitation. I just don't see how you can prevent it or stop it. But, if that's the decision from TASO, that's how it will have to be. We are just way too sensitive sometimes, to the point of being ridiculous. Rant/off. :thumbup :thumbup :thumbup
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I don't agree at all because, in my opinion, contacting a coach with a quick confirmation that officials will be there and any other details should never be considered solicitation. I just don't see how you can prevent it or stop it. But, if that's the decision from TASO, that's how it will have to be. We are just way too sensitive sometimes, to the point of being ridiculous. Rant/off. :thumbup :thumbup :thumbup
I agree with BackJudge. College officials don't feel the need to contact coaches. There really is no need. All stadiums can be found on websites / Google Earth. In 25+ years, I think maybe we have had the need to reach out to a coach 1 time, and only because the Assigning Secretary said we would need to confirm some issue.
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I agree with BackJudge. College officials don't feel the need to contact coaches. There really is no need. All stadiums can be found on websites / Google Earth. In 25+ years, I think maybe we have had the need to reach out to a coach 1 time, and only because the Assigning Secretary said we would need to confirm some issue.
Please tell me you are not comparing college games to the game a Podunk High. Huge difference. Bad comparison.
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Call the Athletic Department Secretary if you have any issues. She is going to take care of payment anyway.
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I agree with BackJudge. College officials don't feel the need to contact coaches. There really is no need. All stadiums can be found on websites / Google Earth. In 25+ years, I think maybe we have had the need to reach out to a coach 1 time, and only because the Assigning Secretary said we would need to confirm some issue.
Believe it or not, I know of at least 2 D-II conferences that had the referee send out a Game Day Notice to the schools (both ADs & both coaches) each week. Not sure if they are still doing it, though. BackJudge knows who I'm referring to.
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Not really anything to do with the TASO policy, but, as a former FBS referee, I never had reason, was never directed to, nor had any desire to contact any coach prior to a game. I was directed by my coordinator to contact a coach post-game to discuss an issue with a foreign object being thrown on the field, once. But, otherwise, no need to contact them. I had a card prepared to give to each HC at our pre-game meeting with each, with crew names and positions, so they would know our names on the field, as a courtesy. But, since they had no direct control on who worked their games, it certainly wasn't any form of solicitation. Heck, I would have preferred that we didn't have a pre-game meeting, and I'd bet most coaches would say the same thing. Just greet during on-field warm-ups, and move on.
Check the school web sites to verify game time. If in question, I'd notify my coordinator or assignor and get them to verify.
Just my 2 cents.
Robert
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I know the D2 conferences Rulesman is referring too and no, I never understood why that was done. The coaches had the schedules, they knew who was coming and if something changed, the supervisor made the contacts or should have. Again, it just opens up to many possibilities for things to go south when they don't have too.
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Call the Athletic Department Secretary if you have any issues. She is going to take care of payment anyway.
Podunk High doesn't have an athletic secretary! 😄
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Podunk High doesn't have an athletic secretary! 😄
Our Podunk high we have the Superintendent, Secretary, AD, Head Coach as one person. Oh, and principal.
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I call the Head Coach to ask for the secretary's number. LOL
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There's a clear distinction here between college games and Texas high school games. A college game (I assume) is likely to be held in the stadium/field where it is initially scheduled. However, I have heard of numerous examples of varsity games (mainly private schools & 1A) where the crew shows up to the game location provided in the assignment only to find out it was moved to a new location sometimes more than 25+ miles apart. Many times the coaches fail to contact the chapter assigning secretary to inform them. Also, many coaches on all levels of high school don't always pay attention to the correspondence sent to them in game week from chapter assigning secretaries. So, I see contacting a coach a few days before the game to verify location, date/time, parking and locker room details -ONLY- as non-solicitation IMHO. We should ask TASO to clarify this.
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There's a clear distinction here between college games and Texas high school games. A college game (I assume) is likely to be held in the stadium/field where it is initially scheduled. However, I have heard of numerous examples of varsity games (mainly private schools & 1A) where the crew shows up to the game location provided in the assignment only to find out it was moved to a new location sometimes more than 25+ miles apart. Many times the coaches fail to contact the chapter assigning secretary to inform them. Also, many coaches on all levels of high school don't always pay attention to the correspondence sent to them in game week from chapter assigning secretaries. So, I see contacting a coach a few days before the game to verify location, date/time, parking and locker room details -ONLY- as non-solicitation IMHO. We should ask TASO to clarify this.
That's why you show up for a V game 2 hours prior to the scheduled kickoff. I agree with the others, no need to contact a coach for this. Just go. If something comes up, adjust.
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I've been involved in a game where the Secretary entered the game into Zebra-Ware for a 7:30 kick. That means you should show up no later than 5:30. Sounds well and fine, until you show up at 5:30 and find out the game kicks at 7pm. I must not be a smooth as everyone who posts on this board, because the change results in a feeling of being rushed, and creates chaos. Now, if a simple contact had been made between the R and the Home Coach confirming kick time, any special ceremonies (i.e., Homecoming, Senior Night, etc.), this is avoided. I still for the life of me can't understand how this would be construed as "Solicitation." I am so naïve enough to believe that solicitation doesn't occur in Texas, but when did we as an organization lose our Customer Service identity?
All that being said, don't compare Texas High School football to NCAA/College games. These are apples and oranges.
My $0.02
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On a side note, I've had three head coaches call me before games this year. What the heck am I supposed to do about that? "Sorry coach, I can't talk to you." Heck, all they wanted to know is if we were bringing chains, timers, there is construction at the field and park here, whatever. It is easy for them to find phone numbers in whatever assigning software chapters use.
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Would be no need to worry about solicitation if the coaches didn't get to pick their crews (like most of the rest of country). :sTiR:
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It is an interesting system for sure....once your name is known and you are in with the coaches you don't have to worry about your schedule...until that point it is tricky. Try to call the games well and get noticed does not work as well in a coach pick situation. I think we should assign at least part of the season and gradually work to the chapter assigning all the games. Helps younger up and coming crews to move up and move out crews that have passed their prime and don't see the need to improve with the times.