Post by: ref4e on August 26, 2018, 03:42:20 PM
On TV, I've seen the same thing in many games at college level with no flag, either. What criteria do the white hats on here use in determining whether or not to call a helping the runner foul on a similar play?
Post by: CalhounLJ on August 26, 2018, 04:41:30 PM
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Post by: GA Umpire on August 26, 2018, 04:46:44 PM
Had a situation Friday night where, on a QB sneak, two running backs crashed the QB's back just before he broke the plane of the goal line. It appeared to me that even the backs hitting him did not propel him any harder or faster than he was already going, so I kept the flag in my pocket...and took an earful from the opposing coach for doing so. >:D
On TV, I've seen the same thing in many games at college level with no flag, either. What criteria do the white hats on here use in determining whether or not to call a helping the runner foul on a similar play?
9.1 Situation: indicates that the action by the backs should result in a flag for helping the runner.
White hats??? Ralph, KWH
Post by: dch on August 26, 2018, 07:24:19 PM
Post by: Ia-Ref on August 26, 2018, 07:46:04 PM
Post by: CalhounLJ on August 26, 2018, 07:54:22 PM
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Post by: Birddog on August 26, 2018, 09:31:51 PM
"crashing the pile" is an interesting situation. Higher level games on TV don't do us any favors. What do you do when pushing or crashing the pile involves crashing an opponent in the back?
In NCAA it is no longer illegal to push the pile or runner, rule does state that you cannot pull the runner. It is referred to as the "Bush Push", USC used it to push Reggie Bush over the goal line against Notre Dame in the Rose Bowl. I think it was the next year or shortly after they changed the rule probably because it was never called.
Post by: AlUpstateNY on August 26, 2018, 10:21:15 PM
"crashing the pile" is an interesting situation. Higher level games on TV don't do us any favors. What do you do when pushing or crashing the pile involves crashing an opponent in the back?
At the NFHS level it's still "push, pull or lift the runner to assist his forward progress" (9-1). I was told it's a safety concern, as a couple of teammates trying to force a 150 pound tail back through a couple of 250 pound defensive linemen, can be more problematic at the Interscholastic level.
Post by: FLAHL on August 26, 2018, 11:45:03 PM
Post by: CalhounLJ on August 27, 2018, 07:20:58 AM
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Post by: CalhounLJ on August 27, 2018, 07:22:24 AM
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Post by: bbeagle on August 27, 2018, 08:26:48 AM
I have thrown a flag for this in the past. A big ole lineman caught his teammate ball carrier who was about to fall and literally threw him forward for a first down.
Yep, that's the usual way I've called it - when the offensive player is a yard or two ahead of the ball carrier and pulls the ball carrier towards him to a first down or touchdown.
When there is a scrum and the pile keeps moving, and everyone is pushing everyone, I haven't called it.
Post by: SouthGARef on August 27, 2018, 10:51:55 AM
I called helping the runner last year. QB sneak and running back just came in with both of his hand pushing the QB clear as day. The coach got confused with the college rule where pushing is legal.
Post by: dch on August 27, 2018, 01:48:42 PM
Also, what if the Offensive player comes in hard to knock off the tackler(s) or to advance the runner? The defensive player engaged with the runner probably doesn't see the blocker coming.
Post by: CalhounLJ on August 27, 2018, 01:50:09 PM
Post by: ncwingman on August 27, 2018, 09:11:31 PM
It is referred to as the "Bush Push", USC used it to push Reggie Bush over the goal line against Notre Dame in the Rose Bowl.
Bush pushed Leinart at Notre Dame....
Yes, the NCAA rule disallows grasping, pulling and lifting, but not pushing... anymore.
Post by: Ralph Damren on August 28, 2018, 06:44:21 AM
Since officials balk at calling assisting the runner a foul and penalizing, I propose a rule change that ends the down when such assistance occurs. No foul and no additional yardage with illegal help.I followed this guideline for the last several years without a problem. Once big ole' Bubba begins to push his teammate, the runner, I tweet my tweeter and announce : "THE RUNNER'S FORWARD PROGRESS WAS STOPPED AND THE BALL'S DEAD P_S." .To a questioning offensive coach : "Coach, my other choice would be a ^flag for helping the runner. " It seems to work and 2-15-1 & 9-1 give me rule support.
Post by: VALJ on August 30, 2018, 01:11:15 PM
Post by: yarnnelg on September 16, 2018, 10:35:17 PM