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Football Officiating => Texas Topics => Topic started by: TexDoc on December 21, 2018, 09:05:42 AM
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Canadian / Newton again, 4th quarter. Leaping call on field goal attempt. Leaping is a PF, not UC. Just a reminder.
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That's aside from it being a very questionable call. Did anyone else watch this?
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Didn’t look like a foul to me.
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Nope - not even close!
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That's aside from it being a very questionable call. Did anyone else watch this?
"I saw nothing." - with all due respect to Sargent Schultz
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^flag The last time I looked, leaping over air was not a foul.
What position called this a foul? z^
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For the past 15 years I have only officiated or rated officials at the NCAA level but Texas uses these rules and unless the UIL has some type of leaping rule; there is nothing in the NCAA rules that covers LEAPING.
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For the past 15 years I have only officiated or rated officials at the NCAA level but Texas uses these rules and unless the UIL has some type of leaping rule; there is nothing in the NCAA rules that covers LEAPING.
Seriously?
😳
9-1-11 covers...what?
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I guess for these what if guys I should have clarified by saying LEAPING straight up in the air and not over the off. center. In every clinic that I have ever attended there is always a few WHAT IF GUYS in the crowd.
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I watched it. I did not think it was a foul.
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Anyone have a link to video?
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https://youtu.be/dV41of_3raw
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Although there certainly is a foul for leaping in NCAA, the actions in this play are definitely not a foul. 366 days before this, technically, yes, that would have been a foul (but I would hope no one would have called this specific instance a foul). The rule change for 2018 - one of the best we've had in a very long time - now requires that there be an invasion of the space above an opponent to be a foul - which is the way it should have been all along.
Hopefully, a learning moment for everyone.
Still mystified as to how this qualifies as a "what if" play. But I'm sure we'll be enlightened.
Robert
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I only mentioned what if because after seeing the play defensive linemen jumped straight up in the air and although I realize the rule was changed in 2018 , leaping did not apply in this play but some people are ready to jump on any statement that is not completely explained. It was my mistake not to explain this fully.
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... but some people are ready to jump on any statement that is not completely explained.
Bill,
There is a reason for this. In this avocation (business, for some), we must be correct, especially with our understanding of the rules. We will all make errors on the field, but those errors are only forgivable if they are due to bad viewing angles (despite being in correct prescribed positions) or something simply not being observed (even 8 guys don't see everything). Errors due to incorrect or incomplete understanding of the rules are not forgivable, and that is how it should be. We accept that (well, I do, anyway). So, when we are discussing situations involving rules - especially in forums such as this - we can not afford to leave folks with incorrect information. If a true first-year guy saw your original comment, at best, he would be confused; at worst he'd have an incorrect understanding of the rule. That's why some of us with not only considerable on-field experience, but considerable experience in teaching/training will call out misleading information. I've been called out (which should be no surprise to anybody). And that's the way it should be. I don't take offense. I learn, and continue to try to get better.
"What ifs" involving balloons, flying saucers, etc., indeed, are frivolous. But, as we have seen over the years, some "what ifs" involving players and/or the ball actually happen, occasionally exposing gaps in the rules. When we can identify a gap in the rules before it becomes a controversy, we need to be able to alert the rulesmakers, so, they can, perhaps, close those gaps ahead of any potential issue. I am fairly certain that this forum directly contributed to expansion of the new fair catch rule to include catches made after an invalid signal, after people asked, "what if...," shortly after the 2018 proposed rule changes were first published. The rulesmakers are not immune to the "can't see the forest for trees" syndrome, and don't always consider all reasonable scenarios, let alone unreasonable - but possible - scenarios. IMHO, the mistake the rulesmakers make is not involving as many persons as possible in vetting these new rules. If they were to do so, they just might find that they are able to write new rules adequately on the first go-round.
Personally, I welcome well considered "odd scenarios" that may not be specifically covered by the rules.
If we each knew the rules perfectly, and had all the solutions to all situations, what would be the point of forums such as this?
Hmmm. Indeed. What if we all knew the rules perfectly?
Robert
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Robert-you have apparently been officiating for a long while and have a great deal of experience. On the other hand I have been around for a while beginning my career in 1967.In 1972 I took Penn Wagers on the field in his first high school game and he went on to white hat in the SEC for 26 years. When I moved to the Houston area Walt Anderson NFL referee was a Div. 4 HL. After 14 years in Houston where I was an officer in Gulf Coast Chapter in football and Houston Chapter in basketball, where I worked both sports on the high school and college level, my job took me to OHIO and FLORIDA where I continued to officiate. After retirement I rated officials in 2 college conferences. I guess over the years I have seen many WHAT IFS and as my first CCA Supervisor J. Dallas Shirley used to say the official that starts with WHAT IF will usually get you in trouble. Guess you never heard of Lou Bello.
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This is THE place For what if’s. Those of us who work all the days of McGriff’s back in the 90s will recall we discussed just such one of those . In the 2001 Peach Bowl the crew ran into one of our “what if’s” and hit it wrong. http://www.refstripes.com/forum/index.php?topic=7102.0
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Bill - while I appreciate your experience, your posts in this topic and another seem to indicate that you think leaping involves action against the center. In one post you even said the referee announced leaping the center. He never said anything about the center. Leaping applies to any defensive player aligned a yard or more off the LOS and can be committed against any of the offensive players. The foul was called on #24, who was indeed lined up a yard or more off the LOS, but as has been noted he did not leap over or onto an opponent. As Elvis notes, wording is very important when discussing rules, especially for the newer officials reading.