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Football Officiating => Texas Topics => Topic started by: copedaddy on August 18, 2019, 04:34:52 PM
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A F/K A40 – A kickoff is high and deep towards the corner where B-22 is in position to make the catch. The ball hits B-22 in the facemask and caroms forward and out of bounds at the B10. During the kick, B-56 and B-44 form a two man wedge at the B40 yard line.
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No foul since the kick went out of bounds. It's B's ball where it went out due to them touching it.
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No foul since the kick went out of bounds. It's B's ball where it went out due to them touching it.
But it’s not a free kick OOB so this is a foul. Only OSK, FK OOB, TB and FC take the wedge foul off.
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Isn't this still a free kick that went OOB? Not a foul for a free kick OOB since it was touched by B, but the touching by B does change the impetus and it's still a kick?
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Isn't this still a free kick that went OOB? Not a foul for a free kick OOB since it was touched by B, but the touching by B does change the impetus and it's still a kick?
In all the rule references I’ve seen when it talks about a Free Kick OOB it is talking about a foul. Since the wedge is only on free kicks, there would not be a need to say “free kick OoB” unless it referred to a foul for FK OOB. Otherwise I’d think the rule makers would have said no wedge foul if the ball goes OOB. Since this was a muff, the wedge could provide an advantage to B in not allowing A to recover the ball.
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I presented this to another college official, and asked if the illegal wedge would be disregarded. Here is his response.
That is correct. Because the free kick went out of bounds, there is no foul for illegal wedge.
Because the ball was touched by B in the field of play, there is no foul by A for a free kick oob. Team B’s ball, 1st and 10 at the B10.
Also, do your best not to laugh at B22 for trying to catch a free kick with his face.
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Understanding this is a question made in order to clarify a ruling, but it begs the question, has your crew ever had a wedge penalty? I have never had it called in one of my games.
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We've never had one.
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We've never had one.
If you watch a lot of film you’ll see 2-man wedges are quite prevalent. The reason you’ve called a wedge foul before is likely because 3-man wedges are quite uncommon.
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If you watch a lot of film you’ll see 2-man wedges are quite prevalent. The reason you’ve called a wedge foul before is likely because 3-man wedges are quite uncommon.
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I believe you are right. I've never looked for it because it didn't matter before. When the 3-man wedge rule came out my first thought was, "is that a thing?" We would see some video examples, but I still don't remember seeing it. Some of those examples would show 2 player wedges and we had to ask if there was a 3rd. I agree it's more likely to have a 2-man wedge designed and coaches will need to make sure they address that in the pre-season. While it may have been common last year, I expect it will be rare this year. It will happen when a backup comes in and wasn't paying attention on the sideline when the coaches told the return team not to do it.
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But it’s not a free kick OOB so this is a foul. Only OSK, FK OOB, TB and FC take the wedge foul off.
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If it's not a Free Kick out of bounds then what do we have. The status of the ball is still a kick. It went out of bounds.
6-2-1: If a free kick goes out of bounds between the goal lines untouched
by an inbounds player of Team B, it is a foul.
By definition it's still a free kick out of bounds, just not a foul because it was touched by team B. The wedge foul doesn't say the kick out of bounds has to be untouched.
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I, too, was wondering if it needed to be a foul for a free kick out of bounds to NOT be a foul for an illegal wedge, and asked that question on the NCAA forum. Former Big 10 Referee Bill Lemonnier offered his opinion that, no it does not require a free kick out of bounds foul for a wedge to NOT be a foul. If it is any kind of free kick out of bounds, touched or untouched by either team then no foul for an illegal wedge. You could still have the illegal kick out of bounds foul, just not a wedge foul. Lemonnier is not the official rules interpreter or the Sec-Ed, but he's a whole lot closer to those folks - even today - than I ever was. Good enough for me, for now.
Robert
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This is one of the more nonsensical fouls in the book. #1 - the wedge can form but there be no contact, and it is a foul. #2 - The wedge can form and there be significant contact but there is a touchback, kick OOB, etc, and there is no foul and to top it all off #3 - the signal to give is UNS Conduct. This is a mess
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Illegal Wedge Formation
ARTICLE 10. a. A wedge is defined as two or more players aligned shoulder
to shoulder within two yards of each other.
b. Free-kick down only: After the ball has been kicked, it is illegal for two or
more members of the receiving team intentionally to form a wedge for the
purpose of blocking for the ball carrier. This is a live-ball foul, whether or
not there is contact between opponents.
I read that there has to be intent to form a wedge. If they incidentally just get close to one another without intentionally forming a wedge, no foul. Before a flag is thrown, you better be darned sure they intended to do this act with the intention of blocking for the ball carrier. That leaves quite a small window in my opinion. It has to be very, very obvious what they were trying to do, not just a couple of players getting within a couple of yards of one another. I've never had this called in a game, and I don't think that's going to change.
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Agree with TexDoc in the sense that there needs to a "time element" to the formation of the wedge. One player just passing by another, but within two yards and shoulder-to-shoulder does not qualify. There needs to be a deliberate pause or they need to deliberately maintain their should-to-shoulder alignment and 2-yard proximity for a discernible amount of time to make a wedge.
My way of thinking, only. I'm not the interpreter.
Robert
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I guess bulletin 1 cleared this up. Foul for wedge. Good to know.
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I guess bulletin 1 cleared this up. Foul for wedge. Good to know.
Glad someones watching. Who would have thought we could have as much influence. :thumbup
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Glad someones watching. Who would have thought we could have as much influence. :thumbup
:thumbup