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Football Officiating => General Discussion => Topic started by: skt101 on September 04, 2020, 10:34:50 AM
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K8, gunner, goes out of bounds voluntarily and is the first player to touch/down the kick. Flag for illegal participation or illegal touching?
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What code? NFHS or NCAA?
In NCAA it's a foul but not illegal touching nor illegal participation
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K8, gunner, goes out of bounds voluntarily and is the first player to touch/down the kick. Flag for illegal participation or illegal touching?
Illegal touching (NFHS: 7-5-13 describes "Illegal Touching" as, "An ineligible A player has illegally touched a FORWARD PASS if he batts. muffs of catches a LEGAL FORWARD PASS........"
NFHSs 9-6 relates to "Illegal Participation" and the illegality of "no player of A or K shall go out of bounds and return to the field during the down UNLESS blocked OOB by an opponent......and returns to the field to the field during the down, he shall return at the 1st opportunity."
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K8, gunner, goes out of bounds voluntarily and is the first player to touch/down the kick. Flag for illegal participation or illegal touching?
If he stays oob, then it's just a dead ball when he touches it.
If he comes back inbounds, then that's a 5 yd live ball foul enforced from either the previous spot or from where the subsequent dead ball belongs to Team B. The touch itself is illegal touching (assuming the kick has crossed the line).
That's NCAA. I think in Fed it would be illegal participation and a much stricter penalty. I'll leave that to those that know Fed better than I do.
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There are no "first to touch" restrictions in Fed. A K player may not go out bounds and return unless forced out, prior to a change of possession or there is no change. No player may go out intentionally and return. 15 yd penalty for Illegal Participation.
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In response to the above, " Illegal touching (NFHS: 7-5-13 describes "Illegal Touching" as, "An ineligible A player has illegally touched a FORWARD PASS if he batts. muffs of catches a LEGAL FORWARD PASS........" If A44 (who would otherwise be an eligible enters the game as a substitute during a dead ball down, BUT never gets inside the number (thus establishing himself as a player) then following the snap catches a forward pass would it be an illegal substitution, illegal participation, or Illegal touching?? :!#
From rule 2-32-15 "a substitute becomes a player when he communicates with a teammate or a game official, enters the huddle, is positioned in a formation or participates in a play.??
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What code? NFHS or NCAA?
In NCAA it's a foul but not illegal touching nor illegal participation
Since this is not the NFHS forum, I will pile on here. As Skybolt says, the ONLY foul is for the illegal return into the field of play after being OB voluntarily. Going, or being, out of bounds is not a foul (voluntarily or involuntarily). Once such a player returns inbounds, he is no different than any other player of Team A. His having been out of bounds has no bearing, whatsoever, on his eligibility/ineligibility to touch the kicked ball (not eligible until the ball is touched by B). And his ability to legally block (as defined) opponents is the same as any other A player. (Yes, his eligibility to touch a legal forward pass is affected - he is not eligible for that, until the ball is touched by B or an official). (There is no such animal as 'illegal participation' in NCAA rules).
So, for NCAA, in the down offered, the recovery of the ball by A8 is an illegal recovery, which allows Team B to invoke the illegal recovery privilege, and take the ball at the spot of the illegal recovery (the dead ball belongs to Team B at that spot). The return inbounds by A8 is a foul for an illegal return, which carries a 5-yard penalty, which may be enforced either at the previous spot, with Team A retaining the ball and the down repeated, or it may be enforced at the spot where the dead ball belongs to B.
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In response to the above, " Illegal touching (NFHS: 7-5-13 describes "Illegal Touching" as, "An ineligible A player has illegally touched a FORWARD PASS if he batts. muffs of catches a LEGAL FORWARD PASS........" If A44 (who would otherwise be an eligible enters the game as a substitute during a dead ball down, BUT never gets inside the number (thus establishing himself as a player) then following the snap catches a forward pass would it be an illegal substitution, illegal participation, or Illegal touching?? :!#
From rule 2-32-15 "a substitute becomes a player when he communicates with a teammate or a game official, enters the huddle, is positioned in a formation or participates in a play.??
In NFHS wouldn't this be a illegal formation penalty per 7.2.1 since he didn't check inside the 9yd mark? Hes a legal substitute per the rule you state 2.32.15 and eligible by number so the other fouls wouldn't apply.
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It would only be a illegal formation. He became a player when he was positioned in the formation. As long as he's an end or back and has an eligible #, there's nothing to make him ineligible. Illegal touching would only apply to ineligible players. Illegal participation wouldn't apply unless he was acting in some sort of deceptive manner, trying to create a hideout play situation, etc.