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Football Officiating => Texas Topics => Topic started by: Chikenwang on September 10, 2010, 08:04:10 AM
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Wondering how many of us would be willing to state in this forum if they are in as an official next year or out if UIL is successful in squashing TASO. Simply state in or out.
I am out, 8 years experience.
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Out
25 years experience
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Too early to say. We need to see how things play out. The only thing I know for sure is that if TT has any control over football officials i.e. evaluating, assigning, disciplining, etc, I am out. 20 years.
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That what I was saying Mike. UIL has control and TASO is done. TT is the man in charge.
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I plan on working games as a NON-UIL official. If there is a game to be played, the schools will hire anybody they can find to cover their games. I'm not sure about other chapters, but in mine lets say this. If 90% of our officials went UIL and 10% retired. That 90% would not be able to cover all of our games.
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24 years and most definately in.
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14 years, 32 year old white hat with playoff experience. Out, but hey at least I work a college schedule so I don't have to give up FB completely.
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I plan on working games as a NON-UIL official. If there is a game to be played, the schools will hire anybody they can find to cover their games. I'm not sure about other chapters, but in mine lets say this. If 90% of our officials went UIL and 10% retired. That 90% would not be able to cover all of our games.
Unless it is one of the mega-chapters (Houston, Dallas) all chapters may find themselves in the same boat. Especially with normal retirements, new guys that do not come back, work related changes, kid playing, etc.
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Guys to be VERY honest, at this point I really don’t know what I’ll do. I love this game, don’t like the take-over plot, but I’m not ready to hang it up. I lay awake at night thinking about all the possibilities. I know it may sound dramatic, but after 20 years my decision will ultimately fall into the hands of my crew and my chapter.
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Time will tell I suppose but with only three years in, I think it is hardly time for me to call it a career.
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I will not make an decision until I have all the information I need. 23rd season for me and wish it to not be my last.
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I have 12 years in. I probably will still call and see how things go and see what is in place. Honestly I am not stressing about it now. I am enjoying my season and making sure I am doing what needs to be done. To me we are right back to January 1st of this year still waiting to see what shakes out. I hate the idea of change and how it is being conducted but that is not in my control.
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16 Years
I'm willing to go on strike for a year to support TASO and stuff this takeover down the UIL's throat the way they have stuffed it down ours. That being said, if TT were removed from the picture and the registration remained free, I would be more than willing to register with UIL.
I'm not going to let TT run me out of officiating all together--but I'd love to drive him out of the UIL.
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16 Years
I'm willing to go on strike for a year to support TASO and stuff this takeover down the UIL's throat the way they have stuffed it down ours. That being said, if TT were removed from the picture and the registration remained free, I would be more than willing to register with UIL.
I'm not going to let TT run me out of officiating all together--but I'd love to drive him out of the UIL.
I agree. We need to be able to have one of our own within the UIL so that person would have some pull over the officiating department. TT out. Mike Fitch in.
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I second Jason's idea. Fitch has forgotten more about officiating than the monkey has tried to put on youtube. Personally, i am still holding my cards and waiting to see what develops before I decide. A 1-year no reg. fee as well as some TASO leadership may convice quite a few to drink the cool aide.
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33 years for me. I don't mind giving up the field so much. My passion now is training my replacements. I am holding my decision to see how this plays out. If TASO is gone, so am I.
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As opposed to retirement - something that hopefully is far down the road for all of us (ornery excluded) - Would you be willing to give up the last week of this regular season and this season's playoffs as a show of power/support? I would be willing to do that in a heartbeat if it means 20 - 30 - 40 more years of TASO run officiating.
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An emphatic yes.
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38 years and OUT
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In
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32 years old
5 years white hat (14 games this season which puts me in the top quarter of Houston crews, I am only putting that in because UIL thinks us youngens are chomping at the bit to call more games if we jump ship and that is not the case)
11 years football
18 years basketball (yes I joined when I was 14) quit basketball last year when they went away from TASO)
Will NEVER register with UIL (under current structure)
I am very happy officiating all TAPPS/TCAL/ private school 6man with TASO for the foreseeable future.
Will be happy to join any work stoppage protest.
Thanks
Coby Rhoden
Houston TASO (Referee)
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^flag
31 absolutely great years and counting. Our Lord has richly blessed me with an avocation that is second to none, having met some of the most dear people that you just couldn't meet anywhere on this earth. I will wait until November, but if the only choice in leadership is with the UIL and Good Time Charlie and his Dancing Monkey, then I believe that I've had a stellar career and will just start to rededicate Friday's to the family. But I will, no doubt, get to see a lot of my friends up in the stands on some Friday nights.
If TASO survives: IN
If UIL Registration is Required in Any Form: OUT
Walk Away in Week 10: Will do so only if it helps TASO in any way.
z^
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As opposed to retirement - something that hopefully is far down the road for all of us (ornery excluded) - Would you be willing to give up the last week of this regular season and this season's playoffs as a show of power/support? I would be willing to do that in a heartbeat if it means 20 - 30 - 40 more years of TASO run officiating.
Heck, would I even notice the difference? :'(
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I don't wanna have to decide Its my Crews Decision. In the Crew System is not just about you its the Crew too.. We get games ( regular and hopefully playoffs) as a Crew... But I won't strike in week 10 Why hurt the Kids for grown up fights. I agreed to my schedule and whether or not the UIL keeps its promise to TASO. I will keep mine to those kids. This will be the last time most of those Seniors will Ever be on a football field. After week 10. We can accept or decline additional games or new schedules. IMHO. I still kinda new at this 10 yrs and don't know that i'm ready to give it up....UIL has never done anything for me that I know of? But I'll be honest. I don't know how much TASO has. Its like the election. If I don't like who we elected (not going to say who i voted for either way) I'm not moving to Canada.
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Its like the election. If I don't like who we elected (not going to say who i voted for either way) I'm not moving to Canada.
At least with TASO you get to vote for your leaders. The person you vote for my not win, but at least your vote counts. UIL will not allow you to vote so basically your voice will never be heard.
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After tonight I can tell you all I thing, I was walking the field tonight (5A non-district game) and saw the athletic director and we started chatting on the way back to the locker room and he asked if I had become UIL registered to which I answered an emphatic "yes". He told me that come week 10 any official that comes onto his fields or any playoff games that his teams are a part of WILL BE UIL REGISTERED or asked to leave. He told me that he plans to ask for a list of all registered officials from Tony Timmons and if he sees a Non UIL official, he will have them removed. I just told him, sounds like you got all your ducks in a row. Good job
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All he needs to do is make sure he has tual consent. If he waits until Fri to see who shows up then he may be in a pickle. If all are non UIL and he refuses to play, then what? If they are going to vett they I suspect they will vett during the week.
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They already know who they have week 10, and they better be UIL registered. He told me he will get a list of the UIL registered in our chapter and if a chapter secretary won't adhere to the rulings, he stated that he would get Tony to make the assignments. His games will be covered after week 10 by UIL registered officials.
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"UIL Certified" ? ! How about "UiL registered".. Certified implies some level of competency evaluation which they will not have in week 10 of this season.
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After tonight I can tell you all I thing, I was walking the field tonight (5A non-district game) and saw the athletic director and we started chatting on the way back to the locker room and he asked if I had become UIL registered to which I answered an emphatic "yes". He told me that come week 10 any official that comes onto his fields or any playoff games that his teams are a part of WILL BE UIL REGISTERED or asked to leave. He told me that he plans to ask for a list of all registered officials from Tony Timmons and if he sees a Non UIL official, he will have them removed. I just told him, sounds like you got all your ducks in a row. Good job
ornery he is probably backing off that stance after watching you work. ^flag
My coach in a top ten 4A game just wishes we could all be friends and he could be out of the middle. His concern is why a week 10 uil deadline? A work stoppage is a horrible PR move and would only punish those who we serve. Do not wish to retire but can not respect the leadership of the uil. They have botched this so bad really speaks volumes about their arrogance. Saw Dr. Farney last week and made me wish for a time when the uil could be respected. Not always agreed with but respected. I doubt the arrogance would allow the uil to replace TT. That would force them to admit to making poor choices. Time will tell but there has to be some positive changes in the attitude of the uil, starting with the officiating department. Still hopeful that the 2nd round of the lawsuit and the legislature coming back into session will address some of the issues.
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They already know who they have week 10, and they better be UIL certified. He told me he will get a list of the UIL certified in our chapter and if need be becuase a secretary won't adhere to the rulings, he stated that he would get Tony to make the assignments. His games will be covered afetr week 10 by UIL members.
Please post your week 10 schedule. I would love to come watch the fun. Simply spelling mistakes in these posts have me curious to see the brain power behind the uil push. As a proud uil supporter, you should start showing your face instead of being an anonymous troll. Stand up for something other than a few inflammatory statements. Its gut check time - are you man enough to stand up or what you believe?
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We still have coaches that don't even know about the UIL vs TASO issues. So, I don't think come week 10 they will know if we are UIL registered or not or even that they are supposed to be required to use UIL officials. We'll be working our as TASO registered.
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Can't imagine needing to register in Dallas or other chapters where coaches have already picked a schedule. My week 10 coaches have already picked our crew, and therefore have agreed to use us. Our deal here is that they can change, but have to pay us for the game anyway. If they want to go UIL registered only, I'll be happy to sit and home and get paid. Hope the schools are prepared to pay twice.
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Do you really think they will pay you? Do you have a formal contractual arrangement that says they will do that or is that just a "gentleman's agreement" the Chapter has with its schools? I can see schools saying they have no choice but not to use us who have not registered and therefore they are not obligated to pay unuised guys. What recourse would you have? They know you will not sue for $75 - $150 and they also know they won't be looking for your services next season so why do they care? I don't like it but I fear that may be the reality.
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At least with TASO you get to vote for your leaders. The person you vote for my not win, but at least your vote counts. UIL will not allow you to vote so basically your voice will never be heard.
now thats a great point....
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We still have coaches that don't even know about the UIL vs TASO issues. So, I don't think come week 10 they will know if we are UIL registered or not or even that they are supposed to be required to use UIL officials. We'll be working our as TASO registered.
I'll bet that the AD's and the Superintendants know all about this issue and THEY are going to be the ones TASO had better worry about. Coaches coach and AD's and Superintendants will make sure that the UIL rules will be followed.
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I'll bet that the AD's and the Superintendants know all about this issue and THEY are going to be the ones TASO had better worry about. Coaches coach and AD's and Superintendants will make sure that the UIL rules will be followed.
Like they do with the 7 on 7 where coaches are to supervise, yet openly break the rules and coach the teams. The overseers of the rules sure do a great job of policing themselves!
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So let me see if i am getting this correct.... If a person doesn't register with the UIL by Nov,1 2010 they will be removed from the week 10 and playoff games? If this is true then that is pasture fertilizer. If the UIL follows through with this THREAT it will back fire. I talk to alot of Chapter members rank n file and most are here to call football and don't understand what all the fuss is really about. Most like me want TASO to win and stay under NCAA rules and playoff still be dished out by the School and local Chapter aggrements we have now. Many will continue calling if our Chapter stays intact. However if the UIL tries to Strong Arm us many will take that as a sign of how things will be ran in the future and retire (quit) in higher than expected numbers. Many have Used the argument What has the UIL and/ or TASO done for me? They will make a decision on staying or quiting based on the statement what have either DONE TO ME.
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Like they do with the 7 on 7 where coaches are to supervise, yet openly break the rules and coach the teams. The overseers of the rules sure do a great job of policing themselves!
This is an area that the Coaches should be at odds with the UIL. Why can't the Coaches be involved in 7 on 7. Its not random kids from differnt areas and schools playing a sport. It is a school specific. The Coaches should be involved when its his and only his players allowed on the team. The Coach is not being paid a stipen To Coach 7 on 7 he does it for free. Would be my guess the UIL gets no proceeds from this event. I bet if the UIL were to get some ticket money for this Coaches would be encouraged to have mutiple teams.
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I bet if the UIL were to get some ticket money for this Coaches would be encouraged to have mutiple teams.
And a $50 registration fee for the coaches.
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This is my 19th year as an official in Texas High School Football. I don't do it for TASO, UIL or any other entity. I do it because I love the game and the kids deserve to have someone out there with integrity, compassion and a willingness to do the right thing. I support my Chapter and TASO as a whole but if they did something I didn't agree with I would attempt to change it or leave. That is how I am looking at the UIL issue.
That being said, the way this entire thing as evolved has left a bad taste. I will "retire" from high school football should things progress the way the UIL intends for them to. I owe nothing to anyone and if it means I have to stop 1 week short of a full season then so be it. Coaches, schools and the UIL will drop you like a bad habit should you do something they perceive as wrong, why shouldn't we do the same?
Do what your conscience allows you to do, but as for me and mine, I will just work my college schedule and sit in the stands to support the kids under the Friday night lights.
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This is my 19th year as an official in Texas High School Football. I don't do it for TASO, UIL or any other entity. I do it because I love the game and the kids deserve to have someone out there with integrity, compassion and a willingness to do the right thing. I support my Chapter and TASO as a whole but if they did something I didn't agree with I would attempt to change it or leave. That is how I am looking at the UIL issue.
That being said, the way this entire thing as evolved has left a bad taste. I will "retire" from high school football should things progress the way the UIL intends for them to. I owe nothing to anyone and if it means I have to stop 1 week short of a full season then so be it. Coaches, schools and the UIL will drop you like a bad habit should you do something they perceive as wrong, why shouldn't we do the same?
Do what your conscience allows you to do, but as for me and mine, I will just work my college schedule and sit in the stands to support the kids under the Friday night lights.
I could not have said it better. Thanks drilsgt_98.
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This is my 19th year as an official in Texas High School Football. I don't do it for TASO, UIL or any other entity. I do it because I love the game and the kids deserve to have someone out there with integrity, compassion and a willingness to do the right thing. I support my Chapter and TASO as a whole but if they did something I didn't agree with I would attempt to change it or leave. That is how I am looking at the UIL issue.
That being said, the way this entire thing as evolved has left a bad taste. I will "retire" from high school football should things progress the way the UIL intends for them to. I owe nothing to anyone and if it means I have to stop 1 week short of a full season then so be it. Coaches, schools and the UIL will drop you like a bad habit should you do something they perceive as wrong, why shouldn't we do the same?
Do what your conscience allows you to do, but as for me and mine, I will just work my college schedule and sit in the stands to support the kids under the Friday night lights.
That will be fine. The more of you guys that leave means the more big playoff games for us UIL Registered guys!!! Plus, I'll take another State Championship.....Thank you!!!!!
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Ornery1
I am not sure that you understand the point here. Your constant references to more games for UIL members if a lot of TASO members leave football or do not join UIL is completely irrelevant.
The question for the UIL is do the figures on here for leaving and staying represent a true reflection of the silent majority who do not post. The worry for UIL supporters must be that it does. At present there are only 2 or 3 people in all the votes saying they will stay. If that is a reflection of the state view then the UIL may be creating a big problem for themselves and high school football.
How many officials work a play off game or State championship each year? Not many across the whole membership of TASO and so saying you will not get such a game if you do not join UIL is not a big incentive really.
Over here we had a disagreement between our main league management group and the officials earlier this year. Basically the league said officials would have to register with them or they could not work football. The officials said OK we will not work football. Once it became apparent that all but a handful of officials really would not work football it lead to crisis meetings which resolved themselves by the league folding and a new league starting. I think this shows how powerful officials are in these situations. I think we all know that if the vast majority of officials refuse to join UIL then their plans cannot work.
If push comes to shove and schools are asked to change their schedules for the benefit of UIL officials availability and to use coaches at lower level games when they know TASO members are available I think you might find support for the UIL dwindling. Once that happens then the UIL leadership is in a real jam.
I think the question for the UIL leadership is are they ready to run the risk of losing their jobs over this as I can see that being a real possibility. The fact we are were we are makes me think they have no understanding of the mentality of officials. This makes it even harder to support having them as our governing body.
Despite your constant attempts to run a counter argument to he prevailing feelings of the majority of TASO members I hope you do get a manageable schedule if the UIL enforce the retirement of as many officials as it seems they will do but I fear for your health. None of us are as young as we were and working four or five varsity games a week will certainly increase the risk of injuries and reduce the ability to recover from them. Once the initial buzz of a mammoth HS schedule wears off how long before you are physically unable to work all the games assigned to you?
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Ref that's left,
Your reply is certainly well thought out, but I'm afraid it was a waste of your time with ornery. Ornery is just trying to get people to react to him and throw out things that he knows isn't true. He is trolling for suckers to engage him in an argument that has no winner.
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Ref that's left,
Your reply is certainly well thought out, but I'm afraid it was a waste of your time with ornery. Ornery is just trying to get people to react to him and throw out things that he knows isn't true. He is trolling for suckers to engage him in an argument that has no winner.
^flag
I totally agree! You cannot even begin to reason with a person of a jackass mentality; this is a person who obviously got his chops busted by TASO at some point in time, and that in and of itself has this person spewing his vile venom toward TASO. He obviously lacks of education and has little to no cognitive ability; but he fully knows that if TASO perseveres in this legal matter and continues to control its destiny, that he is "dead meat" inasfar as Texas high school and collegiate football officiating is concerned. He gloats over the perceived fact of how he(and others like him) is going to clean-up on the UIL playoff games and UIL State Championship Games. Truth be known, the only State Championship Game that this person has ever seen was probably done so with his purchase of a ticket just to get in to see it!
It is people exactly like him that should voluntarily purge themselves from the quality organization that TASO is. The UIL should be absolutely proud to roll out the red carpet to personally welcome people like him and all of his cronies right on in to the UIL fold. After all, they would be welcoming someone into their fold that would embrace all facets of their nasty, forboding, and overbearing philosophy.
But you can rest assured that when he finally gets his neck hung up in the proverbial UIL fence, his level of complaint against them would know no bounds! In summary, he just ain't worth worrying about! z^
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In summary, he just ain't worth worrying about! z^
That was what, three-odd paragraphs of "ain't worth worrying about."
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That will be fine. The more of you guys that leave means the more big playoff games for us UIL Registered guys!!! Plus, I'll take another State Championship.....Thank you!!!!!
You are a Big Ole ( insert appropriate word here) you are obviously here to troll and talk trash behind a screen name.. Who ever you are and whichever Chapter you are from should be ashamed. Rest assured even if UIL prevails your UIL friends will steer away from you. You won't get the games and you'll start blaming the UIL for how bad it is. Someone suggested you were a member that had been kicked out of your Chapter/TASO for Soliciting. I don't know if that is true or not. But you are fire and brimstone against TASO for a reason.... Makes a person go hhhmmmmmmm.
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You are a Big Ole ( insert appropriate word here) you are obviously here to troll and talk trash behind a screen name.. Who ever you are and whichever Chapter you are from should be ashamed. Rest assured even if UIL prevails your UIL friends will steer away from you. You won't get the games and you'll start blaming the UIL for how bad it is. Someone suggested you were a member that had been kicked out of your Chapter/TASO for Soliciting. I don't know if that is true or not. But you are fire and brimstone against TASO for a reason.... Makes a person go hhhmmmmmmm.
OK, so I'm a (Speaker of the truth), Mr. Greyhat. Don't think for a minute that I am who you think I am. I am a member of TASO (only because I have to, to work games), I received a full varsity schedule (11 games) this year, work between 15 to 20 sub-varsity games every year and I am going to work the biggest Varsity game in our chapter this year (on the field, as part of a 5 man crew, (Mr.Arbitrator)). I just don't think that TASO does a thing for me and my chapter and they never have. They only care about Houston and Dallas and to hell with the rest of us. I think its wrong and the UIL has ALWAYS cared about us. Thats enough for me!!!!!!
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What has the UIL done for your chapter that demonstrates they care about you?
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And further, given the recent communication, why would your chapter "go" UiL? For football, they have nothing to help you, as far as we know right now. There are no incentives to be a "UiL" chapter. Your chapter might get favorable consideration in those few games where coaches can't agree and the UiL assigns the game, other than that, what? You think those few games are enough to get the majority of your chapter to "affiliate" with the UiL. Otherwise, you will be no different than any other TASO official that registers with the UiL, other than the fact that you have run your trap about something, at least at this time has not and will not come to pass?
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OK, so I'm a (Speaker of the truth), Mr. Greyhat. Don't think for a minute that I am who you think I am. I am a member of TASO (only because I have to, to work games), I received a full varsity schedule (11 games) this year, work between 15 to 20 sub-varsity games every year and I am going to work the biggest Varsity game in our chapter this year (on the field, as part of a 5 man crew, (Mr.Arbitrator)). I just don't think that TASO does a thing for me and my chapter and they never have. They only care about Houston and Dallas and to hell with the rest of us. I think its wrong and the UIL has ALWAYS cared about us. Thats enough for me!!!!!!
I don't know what is sadder the fact that you are delusional with your blind trust of the UIL or the fact that you rank/assign value/ prestige to the highest 5A ball game that your chapter gets to cover. So do you and the rest of the backwoods hillbillies get together and vote on which game is the biggest game, or do you go on orneryhillbillyfootball.com and discuss it in chat rooms?
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I knew your BUTT would come alive if I mentioned Houston, 504. Keep yapping, WHATEVER.
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I knew your BUTT would come alive if I mentioned Houston, 504. Keep yapping, WHATEVER.
Yeah and I knew you secretly loved my BUTT. These types of feelings are ok to have. You just may want to share these feelings with the rest of the hillbillies that you might share a dressing room with. They might not be comfortable with themselves as you are.
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Such a young pup and cocky to boot. No wonder you moved up the Houston ladder so quickly, you know how to deal with the BIG ONE.......LMAO
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Such a young pup and cocky to boot. No wonder you moved up the Houston ladder so quickly, you know how to deal with the BIG ONE.......LMAO
Once again another homoerotic reference from ornery1. These feelings are ok to have just come out with your true feelings and confront those urges head on. Don't pretend like you know me either the only person that knows me on here is joeandangie so go ask them who I am.
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So how do you decide what the biggest game is.. We tell our Coaches when we get to the field That tonight for us This is the Biggest Game in the State.... If what is implied by the letter i recieved today That we will be able to Stay as TASO Chapters as long as we each register with UIL. Thats acceptable to me. How are you going to take the field with your Taso crew members.
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Such a young pup and cocky to boot. No wonder you moved up the Houston ladder so quickly, you know how to deal with the BIG ONE.......LMAO
Ornery,
Summarize why the UIL route is better for the officials as a whole. Give us something tangible to hold on to, to understand. The constant badgering, belittling and name calling is way past old. State your case with concrete examples not vague generalities. Then and only then will you have a prayer of support.
Based on your previous posts I am sure support isn’t what your after but for the sake of argument at least attempt to be informed on the course you seem hell bent to stay on.
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Such a young pup and cocky to boot. No wonder you moved up the Houston ladder so quickly, you know how to deal with the BIG ONE.......LMAO
^flag
Ornery: We really don't have a lot of time for all of your diarrheic UIL dribble. Why don't you just go on your way and find a website that would be amenable to your constant bootlicking of the tiphat: Good UIL Dr. and his Monkey on a String. FYI, that would be in the Locker Room Section of the UIL Website. Just post all of your comments over there and we'll promise never to speak ill of you again! z^
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I just identified ornery1. He is not the organ grinder or his monkey - he is the organ grinder's monkey's - monkey. Let's ignore him - he is thriving on the attention. ^flag
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With or without letterhead this letter is posted on the UIL website.
I am curious why is this the plan now? Why all the law suits. Why did the UIL not originally state this was the intent last year? Personally I have no issue chooseing and still registering with them each year so long as any fees accessed are nominal. Still it would be good to see what that means to each offcial regardless of the fact they are UIL or TASO chapter.
And my biggest question is on this statement:"It is important to note that UIL member schools will be granted administrative access to every local chapter regarding registration information in the coming weeks. Schools will be able to monitor registration progress chapter by chapter, sport by sport. This will allow the schools to monitor officials who are eligible to officiate UIL contests."
What does this mean and how can they possibly grant access to chapter information? To me all they could do is check chapter rosters against UIL registered rosters. Anyone know?
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just a guess, but if they can see a roster of officials in a chapter that have "registered" they could compare that to those that are assigned to work their games via ZW or whatever scheduling method the chapter may use. If they find someone that is not "registered" they could request that they be replaced, I guess.
I thought of that scenario last week, where two teams are tied for the last playoff birth going in to the last week, Team A wins a tiebreaker on positive points, Team B finds out that team A had used an official that wasn't "registered" in their game in the final week. Team B then gets the contest thrown out because it was not played in accordance to UiL rules and they get to go to the playoffs. far fetched... but possible... ^no
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I am curious why is this the plan now? Why all the law suits. Why did the UIL not originally state this was the intent last year?
Because this was NOT the plan. They are only being "forced" into this "concession" BECAUSE OF the lawsuits and push back they have encountered.
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Ornery,
Summarize why the UIL route is better for the officials as a whole. Give us something tangible to hold on to, to understand. The constant badgering, belittling and name calling is way past old. State your case with concrete examples not vague generalities. Then and only then will you have a prayer of support.
Based on your previous posts I am sure support isn’t what your after but for the sake of argument at least attempt to be informed on the course you seem hell bent to stay on.
I won't speak for Ornery - nor would I want to - he gives those of us who support the UIL a bad name. But I will give my reasons for supporting UIL for whatever they are worth. These are only my opinions but they are shared by some - not all by a large shot - in my chapter:
1. It is my hope that the UIL will hold "problem" officials ACCOUNTABLE - yes, the "A" word. We have at least two officials in my chapter that are very poor at what they do - no one wants to work with them and they give the chapter and avocation a bad name - they have been removed from other sports officiating groups yet my chapter is scared to do anything to them because they are minorities. It is a travesty they are still allowed to officiate football. I think UIL will have the guts to address such officials.
2. Training - it has been non-existent with TASO in years gone by. Our chapter trainers have had to beg, borrow and steal (mostly from this site) to come up with training material. Until TASO had their backs against the wall on this issue, they had nothing. It is my belief that training will improve a great deal under UIL - my basis for this belief is that it can't be any worse.
3. Oversee better allocation of playoff games. It is the "perception" that the big 3 chapters in Texas get anything they want - the smaller chapter get leftovers or a few games thrown their way to appease the crowd. My chapter got great games this year - AFTER this mess hit the fan and TASO realized there were other chapters in the state and they were not happy.
4. The Superintendents and AD's want a change - not all - but in my personal opinion, a majority. Regardless of what we think - it is their schools, their programs and their money. If we had taken care of business (TASO) in years gone by, we wouldn't be in this position. I still say go back and read TASO related posts prior to the lawsuits and UIL registration stuff - many of you who support TASO were also very disgruntled with them. If it means we regain the support and respect of the Supe's and AD's - just to fill out a free UIL form - then I'm all for giving it a try.
5. Other sports that have given TASO a bad name - look at the mess in Tyler basketball - own members turning the chapter into the Texas Attorney General. Baseball threatening strike. Fill in the blanks. I'm not sure if TASO will ever recover in those areas of the state. I think we need to give another organization a chance to clean house.
6. Website - although very small in the scheme of things, the TASO website is a joke and most of you know it. Getting any info from this site is very difficult. I personally go to the Houston chapter site because it is exemplary. TASO can't even get membership cards out or update a website - how do we (I) expect them to better officiating? I'm willing to give UIL a chance.
Again - just my reasons.
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I won't speak for Ornery - nor would I want to - he gives those of us who support the UIL a bad name. But I will give my reasons for supporting UIL for whatever they are worth. These are only my opinions but they are shared by some - not all by a large shot - in my chapter:
1. It is my hope that the UIL will hold "problem" officials ACCOUNTABLE - yes, the "A" word. We have at least two officials in my chapter that are very poor at what they do - no one wants to work with them and they give the chapter and avocation a bad name - they have been removed from other sports officiating groups yet my chapter is scared to do anything to them because they are minorities. It is a travesty they are still allowed to officiate football. I think UIL will have the guts to address such officials.
2. Training - it has been non-existent with TASO in years gone by. Our chapter trainers have had to beg, borrow and steal (mostly from this site) to come up with training material. Until TASO had their backs against the wall on this issue, they had nothing. It is my belief that training will improve a great deal under UIL - my basis for this belief is that it can't be any worse.
3. Oversee better allocation of playoff games. It is the "perception" that the big 3 chapters in Texas get anything they want - the smaller chapter get leftovers or a few games thrown their way to appease the crowd. My chapter got great games this year - AFTER this mess hit the fan and TASO realized there were other chapters in the state and they were not happy.
4. The Superintendents and AD's want a change - not all - but in my personal opinion, a majority. Regardless of what we think - it is their schools, their programs and their money. If we had taken care of business (TASO) in years gone by, we wouldn't be in this position. I still say go back and read TASO related posts prior to the lawsuits and UIL registration stuff - many of you who support TASO were also very disgruntled with them. If it means we regain the support and respect of the Supe's and AD's - just to fill out a free UIL form - then I'm all for giving it a try.
5. Other sports that have given TASO a bad name - look at the mess in Tyler basketball - own members turning the chapter into the Texas Attorney General. Baseball threatening strike. Fill in the blanks. I'm not sure if TASO will ever recover in those areas of the state. I think we need to give another organization a chance to clean house.
6. Website - although very small in the scheme of things, the TASO website is a joke and most of you know it. Getting any info from this site is very difficult. I personally go to the Houston chapter site because it is exemplary. TASO can't even get membership cards out or update a website - how do we (I) expect them to better officiating? I'm willing to give UIL a chance.
Again - just my reasons.
You bring up very good points on why to go UIL. Throughout this whole ordeal no one has ever claimed that TASO does not have any problems. I just dont trust a state agency to fix the problems. Especially with a plan that no one has seen, that is different depending on who you talk to (supers, AD, Coaches, officials), and that did not include all stake holders in developing. Dialogue is a good thing in these matters so I will address every one of your concerns to the best of my ability.
1. Accountability. Yes that seems to be the big problem that coaches and AD's identify as being magically fixed with UIL. Here is my problem. By becoming a state agency the UIL will have more hoops to jump through to get rid of bad officials. They are state employees or registerees however you want to call them. There will be a documentation and an appeal process associated with getting rid of them. I do not know anything about your local chapter. If you do not have internal measures already in your chapter to get rid of bad officials then that is on your local chapter not TASO state not UIL.
2. Training. Another big fail by TASO state (has anyone seen any new huddle videos lately????). Here is my problem with that one. 95% of the TASO big wigs that are capable of creating the training are staying with TASO. TASO owns all training books. Where will UIL get the material? The material will cost money. Where will they get that money....dues?
3. Better allocation of playoffs (for matters of disclosure I am in Houston). Yes Houston gets more games. As a percent of membership it is not that big of a difference. Houston has 750-800 members another chapter might have 150. Is it more then 600 percent of games? Houston also has 1.5 regions of 5A schools, and 1.5 regions of 4A schools that they service in the regular season. What TASO state could do is require every school or schools that request UIL officials to fill out a request online stating what they want and then make that information available to all local chapter leadership.
4. Yes they want change, Yes TASO historically especially in other sports has been lacking in communication. I dont think the UIL plan has any solvency and will create more problems.
5. An analogy for this one... If a school has 5 bad teachers out of 55 do you re-constitute the school. No you put systems in place to fix the 5 and get rid of them. TASO has no system. What are the UIL systems going to be???? They refuse to post them.
6. This is not a small problem but a huge problem. The new generation of official is very web savvy and TASO state does a horrible horrible job on their website. This hurts in recruiting and training. If it helps you any my Umpire runs the Houston website and he has offered to run TASO state to no response. However he refuses to run and UIL houston. Here is one for you how much cheaper would Zebra Ware be if it was run through the state?
Keep up the dialogue. Dialogue is good. Feel free to butcher any of my responses.
Coby Rhoden
Houston TASO Football (referee)
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On point 2 TASO got better, lots better with the dvd power points and the videos. No one has seen the HUDL? Possibly. They damn sure have in my chapter in every single meeting. We use chapter collected video plus hudl video with each TASO power point training frm the clinician DVD. The repsonce at meetings is overwhelmingly good. At one point I thought each chapter would have access or each official but I think roll out logistics, use, etc had yet to be worked out. Plus Mike was moved to TASO ED from the TASO VTT which caused a hiccup.
Without HUDL you can get tools and video and get film. If you want tips on how to do stuff for you chapter on your own send me a mesage.
This can be inproved on and has some first year kinks to work out but the potential is HUGE!! Still TASO will be much better suited for Football training and the like.
Point 6 is my big one. We need a new powerful site.
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Thanks for the response Mr. Rhoden. Much appreciated - both in content and civility.
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2. Training - it has been non-existent with TASO in years gone by. Our chapter trainers have had to beg, borrow and steal (mostly from this site) to come up with training material.
You stole it from this site? :!#
How much money does TASO have again? LOL
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Point 1 Accountability:
Should we be held accountable, yes. Each chapter should document it disciplinary actions and forward to TASO and they can be compiled and UIL can then see them. TASO should do the same for its actions.
Point 2 Training:
UIL does not have access to training materials for football, they may for other sports but not for football. Training should be done by those who have been there and done that. That said until this year TASO has been lax for the last few years in providing training materials. Hopefully with new leadership this will continue.
Point 3 Playoff games:
The coaches will decide which chapter or crew they want. On those occasions where they cannot agree UIL will assign them just as they have for the last 25 years ( that I know of). Football coaches are not going to let UIL use their diversity standards to assign playoff games.
Point 4 Change:
Be careful of change, look what it got us in 2008 in national politics. We have not heard what type of "change these ADs want.
Point 5 Other sports.
I agree that the other sports have brought to where we are. I think had we had a stonger Executive Director at TASO back then we might not be where we are now.
Point 6 Website:
I agree that our current one does suck bad. Supposedly there is a new one in the works.
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1. It is my hope that the UIL will hold "problem" officials ACCOUNTABLE - yes, the "A" word. We have at least two officials in my chapter that are very poor at what they do - no one wants to work with them and they give the chapter and avocation a bad name - they have been removed from other sports officiating groups yet my chapter is scared to do anything to them because they are minorities. It is a travesty they are still allowed to officiate football. I think UIL will have the guts to address such officials.
This is a local issue. The chapter board needs to approve who they allow to be members of the chapter. If your chapter allows these guys to work games then that is the chapter fault. We have guys who we don't assign varsity games to because they just can't do a good enough job. Minority or not, if you can't do the job then we don't allow them on the field. Regardless if you are UIL or TASO. As in the past if there was a problem official that the UIL didn't want on the field, all they did was inform TASO and their membership was revoked. UIL has always had that power and will continue to do so.
3. Oversee better allocation of playoff games. It is the "perception" that the big 3 chapters in Texas get anything they want - the smaller chapter get leftovers or a few games thrown their way to appease the crowd. My chapter got great games this year - AFTER this mess hit the fan and TASO realized there were other chapters in the state and they were not happy.
TASO does not have the authority to control which chapters got which games. Coaches have always gone through the UIL when there were disagreements on which chapter to use. The UIL contacted the chapters directly to assign a chapter. None if this goes through TASO. Besides, why is everyone so concerned about the damn playoffs. Be happy with the 10-12 varsity games you get and then get ready for next season if you don't get a playoff game.
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TASO does not have the authority to control which chapters got which games. Coaches have always gone through the UIL when there were disagreements on which chapter to use. The UIL contacted the chapters directly to assign a chapter. None if this goes through TASO. Besides, why is everyone so concerned about the damn playoffs. Be happy with the 10-12 varsity games you get and then get ready for next season if you don't get a playoff game.
If thats the way it happened, then I missed it coach. ;D Seriously, it is the thought by many that everything you say in your reply is accurate, with the exception of UIL contacting the chapters directly. I truly thought UIL contacted TASO State and said they need a crew for playoff xyz - it cant be chapter A or B. Then - TASO state would contact the chapter of their choice to fill the assignment. If I am wrong on this - I am wrong.
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If thats the way it happened, then I missed it coach. ;D Seriously, it is the thought by many that everything you say in your reply is accurate, with the exception of UIL contacting the chapters directly. I truly thought UIL contacted TASO State and said they need a crew for playoff xyz - it cant be chapter A or B. Then - TASO state would contact the chapter of their choice to fill the assignment. If I am wrong on this - I am wrong.
UIL does not contact TASO but instead contacts the individual chapter secretary to assign the playoff game (in football, I do not know about other sports)
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If thats the way it happened, then I missed it coach. ;D Seriously, it is the thought by many that everything you say in your reply is accurate, with the exception of UIL contacting the chapters directly. I truly thought UIL contacted TASO State and said they need a crew for playoff xyz - it cant be chapter A or B. Then - TASO state would contact the chapter of their choice to fill the assignment. If I am wrong on this - I am wrong.
You are wrong. Just as someone was wrong when they said coaches will not permit the UIL "diversity standards". When the UIL tells a chapter they have a game, they (UIL) often tell them what the crew's ethnic compostion must be, regardless of whether or not the coaches asked for it.
Some of your other issues with TASO were wrong also and points out some issues possibly within you Chapter that need to be addressed before you start finding fault at the state level.
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Point 3 Playoff games:
The coaches will decide which chapter or crew they want. On those occasions where they cannot agree UIL will assign them just as they have for the last 25 years ( that I know of). Football coaches are not going to let UIL use their diversity standards to assign playoff games.
Diversity standards as in we need x number of officials of this race and x number of officials of this race in a crew? If so that already happens.
I realize this is idle speculation, but the UIL will have a ready made source of training material for football. That source is the National Federation. Something to chew on.
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UIL does not contact TASO but instead contacts the individual chapter secretary to assign the playoff game (in football, I do not know about other sports)
Then I'll be the first to admit my understanding was wrong on this issue. And yes Mike, some issues should be handled at the local TASO chapter level, some at the state TASO level.
My chapter has not made a decision on which organization they will endorse.
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At this point there is no need to endorse either one. There will be a court hearing in october before any decision has to be made. Hopefully folks will be patient enough to wait until then.
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In all fairness, lets look at this from a middle ground standpoint: The ONLY thing that the UIL is doing is registering all officials who wish to be considered for the playoffs. If you do not want to work the playoffs, then you do not have to register. There is nothing mandating that officials JOIN the UIL. That is not what is being asked here. The ONLY thing being asked of officials is simply to register with the UIL.
The stance that some are taking is "I will not register and help cause a stoppage of play". What will happen is about 50% of officials will refuse to register and the 50% of officials who would not be normally working the playoffs will see themselves thrust into action so in essence, there will not actually be a shortage of officials. Out of the 50% of officials that will not be working the playoffs, about 30% of those would not be calling anyways so in essence, 15% of quality of officials will probably miss the playoffs.
Here is the bottom line folks: This is not an attempted takeover by the UIL. This is also not an attempt by the UIL to dissolve TASO. The UIL is perfectly acceptable to having two or more state officiating organizations. The ONLY thing the UIL is doing is making sure that all officials working in Texas are registered with the UIL. All officials must be held accountable and TASO has not done a very good job of doing that. TASO has been doing things under the "good old boys" system for many years and you have to change the way you do business with the times. The UIL has to improve officiating and the way we as officials do business.
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I call BS!
It is insulting that you say "the UIL has to improve officiating". They do not have a clue about football and wouldn't know anything about what a football official does if it bit them on the butt.
Why the deadline?
What happens next year?
Will it always be free?
Who will do the training?
What can we expect next?
Answer some of those questions instead of insulting us saying UIL will make officials better.
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In all fairness, lets look at this from a middle ground standpoint: The ONLY thing that the UIL is doing is registering all officials who wish to be considered for the playoffs. If you do not want to work the playoffs, then you do not have to register. There is nothing mandating that officials JOIN the UIL. That is not what is being asked here. The ONLY thing being asked of officials is simply to register with the UIL.
The stance that some are taking is "I will not register and help cause a stoppage of play". What will happen is about 50% of officials will refuse to register and the 50% of officials who would not be normally working the playoffs will see themselves thrust into action so in essence, there will not actually be a shortage of officials. Out of the 50% of officials that will not be working the playoffs, about 30% of those would not be calling anyways so in essence, 15% of quality of officials will probably miss the playoffs.
Here is the bottom line folks: This is not an attempted takeover by the UIL. This is also not an attempt by the UIL to dissolve TASO. The UIL is perfectly acceptable to having two or more state officiating organizations. The ONLY thing the UIL is doing is making sure that all officials working in Texas are registered with the UIL. All officials must be held accountable and TASO has not done a very good job of doing that. TASO has been doing things under the "good old boys" system for many years and you have to change the way you do business with the times. The UIL has to improve officiating and the way we as officials do business.
What is their plan to improve officiating? What is their plan to hold people accountable? How are they going to pay for these goals? Why is it that when asked about these issues both TT or Dr. B had a different answer for AD's, coaches, officials, and Super's? The fact of the matter is this was poorly executed by the UIL and they have lost all credit/good will with officials. If they would like to get it out then put their plan in writing.
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I spoke with a BB official and he said that the rank and file member didn't notice any difference last year, training was done by the chapter as it was done before. Games were assigned by the chapter, playoffs were the same as they had always, coaches agreed to officials until regional tourneys, same as before. As far as he knew, there were no officials in the chapter that were summoned to Austin for an accountability hearing. He said that he really didn't care one way or the other just wanted to call BB games and from their initial year there was only one difference. They actually had to log on to the fed website and take a test rather than sitting at a meeting answering the same 50 t/f questions on pieces of paper all together and handing the tests in.
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I have been a member of my Chapter since 1976. SFOA was a great. IMHO, it's time for us to have our own organization again. It's been my observation a large percentage of Football officials only do this sport and are very focused, if not obsessed with becoming better. Football officials, as an organization, had their feces cohesive during the SFOA days, and being lumped in with the other sports had only done us harm. What do you think, especially those who actually were members of SFOA?
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In all fairness, lets look at this from a middle ground standpoint: The ONLY thing that the UIL is doing is registering all officials who wish to be considered for the playoffs. If you do not want to work the playoffs, then you do not have to register. There is nothing mandating that officials JOIN the UIL. That is not what is being asked here. The ONLY thing being asked of officials is simply to register with the UIL.
The stance that some are taking is "I will not register and help cause a stoppage of play". What will happen is about 50% of officials will refuse to register and the 50% of officials who would not be normally working the playoffs will see themselves thrust into action so in essence, there will not actually be a shortage of officials. Out of the 50% of officials that will not be working the playoffs, about 30% of those would not be calling anyways so in essence, 15% of quality of officials will probably miss the playoffs.
Here is the bottom line folks: This is not an attempted takeover by the UIL. This is also not an attempt by the UIL to dissolve TASO. The UIL is perfectly acceptable to having two or more state officiating organizations. The ONLY thing the UIL is doing is making sure that all officials working in Texas are registered with the UIL. All officials must be held accountable and TASO has not done a very good job of doing that. TASO has been doing things under the "good old boys" system for many years and you have to change the way you do business with the times. The UIL has to improve officiating and the way we as officials do business.
I am not sure what you mean by "TASO has been doing things under the good old boys system for many years." TASO does not, and has not been handing out games. Also, you accuse TASO of not doing a good job of accountability. Again, give some examples. Most discipline is handled at the Chapter level. For TASO to get involved, someone has to make a complaint. To my knowledge, TASO has never sat on a complaint. Instead, when brought to its attention, TASO has taken actions against members for soliciting -- which I think it was it driving some people to the UIL -- because they want to politic to get playoff games the coaches or their Chapters will not give them.
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Diversity standards as in we need x number of officials of this race and x number of officials of this race in a crew? If so that already happens.
I realize this is idle speculation, but the UIL will have a ready made source of training material for football. That source is the National Federation. Something to chew on.
I don't think that will happen. Texas uses NCAA rules by the choice of the UIL. They have always had the power to change to NFHS and never have in the many years they have existed so I don't see why they would do so now.
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I know this...all of this crap is wearing on me. Refereeing is a lot less fun this year for me. My crew got drafted for a game at the ISD where I work down in the intermediate school...and the coach doesn't want me to work the game.
I'm perfectly happy to bow out and spend a Friday with my family instead of referee. I guess there will be life after football.
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I spoke with a BB official and he said that the rank and file member didn't notice any difference last year, training was done by the chapter as it was done before. Games were assigned by the chapter, playoffs were the same as they had always, coaches agreed to officials until regional tourneys, same as before. As far as he knew, there were no officials in the chapter that were summoned to Austin for an accountability hearing. He said that he really didn't care one way or the other just wanted to call BB games and from their initial year there was only one difference. They actually had to log on to the fed website and take a test rather than sitting at a meeting answering the same 50 t/f questions on pieces of paper all together and handing the tests in.
Uhhhhhh, when is the last time you took a TASO football test?
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Took it this year, and I am sure that there is some passing around of information, and yes there are 50 t/f questions.
I am 100% sure that the test wasn't passed out at a chapter meeting where folks just congregated, and answered the test in group fashion, many just listening and contributing nothing, marking T or F on the sheet and handing it back to chapter members to grade.
All I asked him was, what were the differences between last year and the years before UiL and how many people were summoned to Austin to be held "accountable"... The testing was the biggest difference that he mentioned, and apparently it was all done through the NFHS site, nothing UiL based.
I think he even said that there was a second part of the rules testing that had to be done sometime during the season, not just the start of the year.
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When mentioning the testing you said they had to log on to the fed website and take a test rather than sitting at a meeting answering the same 50 t/f questions on pieces of paper all together and handing the tests in. My point was that we do not take the TASO test like that any longer. It is online.
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I'm perfectly happy to bow out and spend a Friday with my family instead of referee. I guess there will be life after football.
Did that once this year already. Looking forward to many more nights like that.
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I have been a member of my Chapter since 1976. SFOA was a great. IMHO, it's time for us to have our own organization again. It's been my observation a large percentage of Football officials only do this sport and are very focused, if not obsessed with becoming better. Football officials, as an organization, had their feces cohesive during the SFOA days, and being lumped in with the other sports had only done us harm. What do you think, especially those who actually were members of SFOA?
TXSMOGS, you are quite right.
If we can all go back in our memory banks we will see that in the early 90's, the UIL came to SFOA and said you have to take over these basketball and other sports because we cannot handle them. SFOA did and formed TASO. Now just because football cannot make miracles happen with problem children they are being punished.
Ohhhh, well like Blindref said more time at home with the family.
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All officials must be held accountable and TASO has not done a very good job of doing that.
Please explain what in the world this means. This is the same rhetoric UIL has been spewing since this whole thing started. What the hell is meant by "accountability?" Is it being accountable for rules knowledge, hustling, tossing coaches or players, showing up on time, not getting paperwork in, not taking a test, not being in shape, not wearing a UIL hat, not following 1204...what exactly?
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Just found out my 7th grader has a UIL Art contest. Thats right boys and girls A ART CONTEST. Now you know why they want to TAKE OVER football. ITS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY. They have programs that lose money so this is a way cover all there programs. What about the Insurance that we have with TASO, is UIL (Big Brother) going to have the same. If 50% of the Officials do not sign up with UIL and cannot call Playoff games. Are you going to let a 3 year official call 3 round playoff game Good Luck on that. I would pay 25.00 a year to the UIL to leave us the Hell alone.
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I would pay 25.00 a year to the UIL to leave us the Hell alone.
In the last year or so of this issue, that is the BEST idea I have heard yet!
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Just found out my 7th grader has a UIL Art contest. Thats right boys and girls A ART CONTEST. Now you know why they want to TAKE OVER football. ITS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY. They have programs that lose money so this is a way cover all there programs. What about the Insurance that we have with TASO, is UIL (Big Brother) going to have the same. If 50% of the Officials do not sign up with UIL and cannot call Playoff games. Are you going to let a 3 year official call 3 round playoff game Good Luck on that. I would pay 25.00 a year to the UIL to leave us the Hell alone.
I would pay them $25 a year also to leave me alone and not send me any BS emails. If they would have pushed this as a tax and not a we are going to change the way your group has opperated that would have been more well received then what they are trying to do now. Fact remains they did a horrible job rolling this out. They ignored all dynamic change best practices and they now have a cluster to clean up.
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I would pay them $25 a year also to leave me alone and not send me any BS emails. If they would have pushed this as a tax and not a we are going to change the way your group has opperated that would have been more well received then what they are trying to do now. Fact remains they did a horrible job rolling this out. They ignored all dynamic change best practices and they now have a cluster to clean up.
And too much pride and ego to back off.
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For all you officials that are Pro UIL is that a good idea that you can live with. ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
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I don't think that will happen. Texas uses NCAA rules by the choice of the UIL. They have always had the power to change to NFHS and never have in the many years they have existed so I don't see why they would do so now.
I pray you are correct Jason. Now that I've gone to NCAA rules from NFHS, I don't want to go back!
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All the Chapters Pres should send a letter to all the officials in there chapters and find out how there Chapter stands on the matter (Take a Vote). Then send the results to the UIL and TASO maybe that would HELP
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So if our testing is going to be done through the NFHS then how long do we think the NFHS will be willing to handle seperate NCAA products for Texas only? The thought may be that we will not go to FED rules but after we have been in bed with the NFHS for awhile I predict that the subject will be submitted sooner or later. NFHS is a powerful organization with a lot of pull. Once we are pulled in, thier influence will eventually be too strong to ignore.
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I haven't seen anything that would say that our testing is going to be done through NFHS. Though it is a valid question for any chapter that chose to align themselves with the UIL. this is all based COMPLETELY from their latest communication, and in no way predicts what might happen at a later date.
Registration should not be confused with membership. Each chapter will decide whom their service provider will be for rule books, insurance, training, etc. Chapters may
choose either TASO or UIL for these services. However, all individual officials who wish to officiate UIL contests must register with the UIL annually, regardless of their
chapter membership affiliation.
...
However, all officials must complete the free registration process annually.
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So if our testing is going to be done through the NFHS then how long do we think the NFHS will be willing to handle seperate NCAA products for Texas only? The thought may be that we will not go to FED rules but after we have been in bed with the NFHS for awhile I predict that the subject will be submitted sooner or later. NFHS is a powerful organization with a lot of pull. Once we are pulled in, thier influence will eventually be too strong to ignore.
I hope the UIL is smarter than that to change rules. I think they realize that by changing the rules we would all be first year officials all over again.
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I would pay them $25 a year also to leave me alone and not send me any BS emails. If they would have pushed this as a tax and not a we are going to change the way your group has opperated that would have been more well received then what they are trying to do now. Fact remains they did a horrible job rolling this out. They ignored all dynamic change best practices and they now have a cluster to clean up.
Shoot Fire Id give TASO, TAPPS and UIL $25-50 each if this were all to just go away. Then they could decide what they wanna do and what areas of control each would have. I would register with the UIL and pay them to allow me to call UIL schools. My Chapter could stay TASO... EVERYONE WINS and EVERYONE LOSES...TIED Ballgame. No Overtime.
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The court better hurry up because A) A lot of referees are getting jumpy and about to sign up with UIL, and B) the chapters are going to ALL look bad if this comes down to late October and all of a sudden there ain't enuf refs. If I were a chapter secretary, I'd want to know EXACTLY who is in and who is out no later than next week so I could start working with coaches that last 3 weeks of the season. Some of those 5th place teams vs 6th place teams might not be playing week 10.
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There is a hearing scheduled in October. Folks ought to be willing to wait at least until then if not longer. There will be enough refs to cover the games. UIL said so.
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When in October?
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Target is the first week. Don't know if a time/date has been confirmed yet.
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I would pay 25.00 a year to the UIL to leave us the Hell alone.
I would let them pay me a $50 annual registration fee and then leave us the Hell alone!
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I'm with TXMike ... everybody just needs to chill out. There is no reason to get all worked up about this now and no need to jump to go register. Nov 1st is a long way away. It's obvious is that is to get everybody all nervous and excited. And based on the "sky is falling, do something now" posts, it's working.
Just let the lawsuits and courts take it's action. There will be plenty enough time to react to the final answer regardless of which way it goes. We just need to be worried about calling a good game this week!
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I'm with TXMike ... everybody just needs to chill out. There is no reason to get all worked up about this now and no need to jump to go register. Nov 1st is a long way away. It's obvious is that is to get everybody all nervous and excited. And based on the "sky is falling, do something now" posts, it's working.
Just let the lawsuits and courts take it's action. There will be plenty enough time to react to the final answer regardless of which way it goes. We just need to be worried about calling a good game this week!
Preach on brother!
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Today, Houston Chapter TASO members received an email from Tommy Moore, Executive Secretary, stating he'd been invited to attend a meeting next Tuesday to discuss UIL registration. It went on to say he thought there'd be be representatives from Dallas, Ft. Worth, Austin and San Antonio in attendance, as well.
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Today, Houston Chapter TASO members received an email from Tommy Moore, Executive Secretary, stating he'd been invited to attend a meeting next Tuesday to discuss UIL registration. It went on to say he thought there'd be be representatives from Dallas, Ft. Worth, Austin and San Antonio in attendance, as well.
Thats nice. I wish they would conf in the rest of the state???
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Thats nice. I wish they would conf in the rest of the state???
Normally I would agree. However, I get the feeling that UIL is getting really nervous over the possibililty of the lack of registrations. Perhaps, since these chapters mentioned, are the larger chapters in TASO, that if they declare that their members are not interested in being UIL registered, that the UIL may begin to see the sign that we (the majority) are not budging on our stance. In reality, the chapters mentioned would make either TASO or UIL sink their ship if they went with either organization. That's not to say that any chapter would cause the same effects, but the UIL seems to be only concerned over those big ones because the belief is that the rest of the chapters will follow the chapters mentioned. I have a hunch that the UIL is about to be forced to back off if this said meeting takes place. TASO now has the upper hand.
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Normally I would agree. However, I get the feeling that UIL is getting really nervous over the possibililty of the lack of registrations. Perhaps, since these chapters mentioned, are the larger chapters in TASO, that if they declare that their members are not interested in being UIL registered, that the UIL may begin to see the sign that we (the majority) are not budging on our stance. In reality, the chapters mentioned would make either TASO or UIL sink their ship if they went with either organization. That's not to say that any chapter would cause the same effects, but the UIL seems to be only concerned over those big ones because the belief is that the rest of the chapters will follow the chapters mentioned. I have a hunch that the UIL is about to be forced to back off if this said meeting takes place. TASO now has the upper hand.
pray:; pray:; pray:;
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Guys just putting all this on the back burner for now, and im going to enjoy a great night on the field with my crew. Good luck to everyone tonight. And this inculudes onery1.
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GAME DAY! Time to get ready. I wish you all safe travels and great games! Man I love being a football official! ^good
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I just got an email thanking me for registering. ??? I am wondering if I am automatically already registered because our basketball chapter went UIL last year. If so, that would mean all officials in multiple sports whose other sport chapter has gone UIL would be registered. I guess this means I can do playoff games...but I still plan to wait and see what our football leadership directs us to do. If they say don't register, then I will not consider myself registered for football.
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"I just got an email thanking me for registering. Huh I am wondering if I am automatically already registered because our basketball chapter went UIL last year. If so, that would mean all officials in multiple sports whose other sport chapter has gone UIL would be registered. I guess this means I can do playoff games...but I still plan to wait and see what our football leadership directs us to do. If they say don't register, then I will not consider myself registered for football."
Not at all surprising. I suspect that the UIL, when determining the success of football registration, will count as "registered" all officials who registered for other sports and also do football. I don't know what to do about that.
Did hear a rumor that the UIL will stop letting officials who are not working get into games for free (actually that's about a direct quote from Mr. Timmons).
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"Did hear a rumor that the UIL will stop letting officials who are not working get into games for free (actually that's about a direct quote from Mr. Timmons)."
Well that would kill trying to get guys to go out and evaluate.
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Did hear a rumor that the UIL will stop letting officials who are not working get into games for free (actually that's about a direct quote from Mr. Timmons).
That guy or gal working the pass gate could care less. 95% of the time, you just flash a card their way and they let you in.
That reminds me. Did we get TASO membership cards this year? I don't think so.
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"Did hear a rumor that the UIL will stop letting officials who are not working get into games for free (actually that's about a direct quote from Mr. Timmons)."
Well that would kill trying to get guys to go out and evaluate.
I heard of a game this year where coaches scouting for next week were charged to get in the gate!
It was a Parochial school and the coaches were with UIL schools. I don't think that had anything to do with it but still..........................
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We should not be getting in for free anyway since our brother's pay is based on gate.
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I knew Mike would chime in. How many times have we had this discussion???
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More than we should have to but some folks are just hard headed (and cheap).
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Or just hard headed.
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I just got an email thanking me for registering. ??? I am wondering if I am automatically already registered because our basketball chapter went UIL last year. If so, that would mean all officials in multiple sports whose other sport chapter has gone UIL would be registered. I guess this means I can do playoff games...but I still plan to wait and see what our football leadership directs us to do. If they say don't register, then I will not consider myself registered for football.
I also received that e-mail.
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^flag
Question: Can a member of TASO(provided that TASO gives its constituency express permission to do so) register with the UIL by filling out a paper registration form; or must this be done online? If so, what about those poor souls that don't exactly own or even make use of computers? Is the UIL in any way prepared to mail out paper registration forms to all those individuals who might possibly request them? Also, in such a scenario, why couldn't TASO members just register with the UIL through the TASO website or manually through TASO and have TASO directly pass that info along to the Manor Road Crowd with little to no direct interaction between TASO members and the UIL. This would minimize the UIL's loading its database with email addresses that it no doubt would start sending out spam to. Let the UIL go ahead and send out bulk-rate letters. It would prove more costly and I don't really think that the vast majority of us would mind hastily throwing them into the round file! Just a thought! z^
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Any word on yesterdays meeting?
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The following was sent to Houston members this morning from Tommy Moore, our chapter secretary:
I was invited as a Representative of the Houston Chapter to a meeting in Austin yesterday. In attendance was the UIL staff, members of the Legislative Council, Head of the AD's Association, Heads of the Coaches Association, and TASO representatives from the Dallas, Ft. Worth, Austin, San Antonio, and Houston Chapters as well as the TASO Executive Director and TASO Football Division President.
This was the first time I felt we made some progress in understanding each others position.
Mike Fitch, TASO Executive Director and Tony Timmons, UIL Director of Officials, are going to put out a joint statement summerising the meeting, what was talked about, and the facts that both sides agree on.
We have invited Tony Timmons to our General Chapter Meeting on Monday October 18 at the Campbell Center.
Please send me a list of the questions and topics you want him to address. I will compile the list, send it to him, and ask him to cover these at our meeting.
It is extreemly important that even though we may disagree on some issues, we respect treat him as our guest.
At this time we are still in a holding mode as to UIL registeration until we receive the joint statement. At that time we will have a Board Meeting and give you a recommendation.
You are now and always have been free to make your own decision as to what you want to do.
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Based on the lack of responses to this latest development - sounds like everyone is keeping the contents of the meeting pretty close to the vest.
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Or waiting for the joint statement
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Just waiting.
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Or waiting for the joint statement
Do you think the joint statement will be this week?
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Just waiting.
Now I am getting curious. Starting to lean towards you did last week in wondering why the rest of the chapters weren't consulted. At least consult them now before a decision is made.
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Jason, Fitch did call us and tell us that it was a quick meeting and best was to get a lot of folks together was based on proximity thats all.
When you can buzz me.
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Purely speculation on my part, but I think what will happen is that we all have to register this year, for free this time around. TASO chapters will get to remain TASO chapters, but can decide to bail and go with UIL. But, everyone must register to be eligible for varsity games and playoffs. I can think of maybe 2 or 3 chapters that might go with UIL. I just hope they get an agreement that TASO chapters will not be cut out of UIL assigned game in the playoffs.
I can live with that, but then let's see what happens next year.
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The only thing about an "agreement" with these folks is they tend to forget them as time goes on.
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The only thing about an "agreement" with these folks is they tend to forget them as time goes on.
Ain't that the truth!!!!!
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Purely speculation on my part, but I think what will happen is that we all have to register this year, for free this time around. TASO chapters will get to remain TASO chapters, but can decide to bail and go with UIL. But, everyone must register to be eligible for varsity games and playoffs. I can think of maybe 2 or 3 chapters that might go with UIL. I just hope they get an agreement that TASO chapters will not be cut out of UIL assigned game in the playoffs.
I can live with that, but then let's see what happens next year.
I wonder what would happen with the newly filed lawsuit against Dr. B in that case.
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^flag
I've heard rumors that the lawsuit had been filed or was, at least, in the works. I'm beginning to have doubts that that has indeed happened or will happen anytime in the near future. Given that, this is the primary reason that the :!# Dancing Monkey has been extended a dancing engagement at Campbell Center on Monday, October 18th before the Houston Chapter. Lest we should remember that this was exactly the same locale where the tiphat: Good UIL Dr. and Timmons helped in hijacking the Houston TASO Basketball Chapter into vacating TASO and joining-up forces with the UIL. Unlike basketball, The Houston TASO Football Chapter does not have a President or any other officer that I'm remotely aware of that has been a former student or player of Dr. B at some juncture in their life, and I really think that there will be the potential for a lot of peanuts being hurled his way in the form of some rather embarrassing questions for the :!# Dancing Monkey to attempt to skirt around. If he cannot adequately explain the UIL's position, there are more than enough disgruntled folks that will happily walk out of there choosing to embrace the status quo.
Let's do keep in mind that Mr. Timmons was the first choice of the tiphat: Good UIL Dr. to head up its Officials Division. Here is a guy that has never called a football game, couldn't tell you one end of the football from the other, or even the point values of football scores unless they were given to him in a multiple choice format.
If we must acquiese to their Registration demand, then it should solely be on TASO's terms: A legal contract stipulating that UIL Registration for all TASO members will remain totally
free indefinitely, and it can be done on paper as well as electronically submitted. And even then, that should be done through the TASO website for the TASO leadership to submit to the UIL. Another item is that the UIL will leave the competing coaches free to agree on possible crews for all playoff games with UIL input only allowable on UIL assignments, much as it currently is.
If for any reason that the UIL refuses to adhere to this proposal it should be construed as a clear signal that the UIL is only flexing its muscle solely for monetary gain. The only advice that I can offer our TASO leadership is to exercise extreme caution when dealing with rattlesnakes! z^
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From Bill Fecci =
My Fellow Officials,
As some of you may have already heard the Football Division had requested a meeting with Mr. Tony Timmons, UIL Director of Officials and any staff members including Dr. Breithaupt that could attend. The primary purpose was to discuss the registration of Football Officials. This meeting occurred yesterday. In addition to Michael Fitch, Executive Director of TASO and myself, the assigning secretaries of the five largest Chapters were invited as representatives from TASO Football. In that we expected only Mr. Timmons and perhaps one other representative from UIL staff would be in attendance we did not want a large contingent to appear we were ganging up. As often happens with these meetings, unexpected events from one side or the other often occur. This meeting would be no exception. To our surprise, a pleasant one I might add, we were met with an approximate seventeen member group to sit down and have an open discussion with us. This group was comprised of members from UIL staff Dr. Breithaupt, Cliff Odenwald, Tony Timmons and Dr. Mark Cousins, Superintendents representing their own Districts as well a the Legislative Council, Presidents from the Athletic Directors Association, the Basketball Coaches Association, the Baseball Coaches Association, the Executive Director from the Girl’s Coaching Association, the IPP from the Athletic Directors Association and an Associate Athletic Director from a school district.
I mentioned this was a pleasant surprise, because we have for years asked that members of TASO could be afforded the opportunity to sit and discuss face to face with members of these organizations. To my knowledge this was the first time that a group of this composition has had the opportunity, in an informal setting, to discuss mutual concerns. Because of this meeting I believe all have a little better understanding of each others position.
A statement coauthored by Mike Fitch and Tony Timmons will be released summarizing this meeting, giving some clarification from the UIL about officials registration, and a factual listing of points we all agree on. Please give them some time to accomplish this task. It will be done as soon as both men’s schedules will accommodate.
As of yet, the registration deadline with the UIL is still November 1, 2010. The decision to register is a private free choice matter each of us must deal with on our own. I would encourage all of you to take the time to collect as much information about the registration process and what options are afforded each member. The deadline is still some 30 days away and you have time to do your investigation. Hopefully, once you receive the communiqué from Mike and Tony, the information you will receive will help you make a more informed decision.
Hope your season is going well. Please be assured I will keep you as informed as I can with factual not hearsay information as I acquire it.
Bill Fecci
President TASO Football
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Well, I don't think the UIL server melted overnight with people signing up!
I will look at the joint statement and then make a last minute decision. Depending on what the letter says and what other information I can glean between now and then will make my determination. As long as it is a list of officials only and we are still under TASO for training, discipline, code of etihics, etc, I am okay. But it is entails us working directly for Timmons or Breithaupt.................... count me out!
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Well, I don't think the UIL server melted overnight with people signing up!
I will look at the joint statement and then make a last minute decision. Depending on what the letter says and what other information I can glean between now and then will make my determination. As long as it is a list of officials only and we are still under TASO for training, discipline, code of etihics, etc, I am okay. But it is entails us working directly for Timmons or Breithaupt.................... count me out!
^flag
I would only support a registration process whose costs would be strictly borne by the Good Folks over there on Manor Road. So long as it resembles the UIL COPE Program, I can live with it. Background checks are OK too, so long as the UIL picks up the full tab; but that must be done through TASO's auspices with absolutely no monetary contribution for it by TASO. All of this would have to be done with the blessings of both the TASO State Board and it's Football Board, as well as having procured individual chapter approvals. Otherwise, it's back to the courtroom, the litigation, and the restraining orders! z^
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^flag
I would only support a registration process whose costs would be strictly borne by the Good Folks over there on Manor Road. So long as it resembles the UIL COPE Program, I can live with it. Background checks are OK too, so long as the UIL picks up the full tab; but that must be done through TASO's auspices with absolutely no monetary contribution for it by TASO. All of this would have to be done with the blessings of both the TASO State Board and it's Football Board, as well as having procured individual chapter approvals. Otherwise, it's back to the courtroom, the litigation, and the restraining orders! z^
And they must pay my mortgage, wash my car, purchase me new shoes, and pay for my kids college. Otherwise, I'll take them to court again so I can lose more of my members money to attorney's. yEs:
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Cooter we've discussed this many times before. If TASO were to cease to exist, what do you think happens with the money they have in the bank? They are a 501-c-3 organization (or some variation), so the money cannot go back to members or any individuals. We might as well spend every penny defending TASO and keeping our independence as officials.
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Cooter we've discussed this many times before. If TASO were to cease to exist, what do you think happens with the money they have in the bank? They are a 501-c-3 organization (or some variation), so the money cannot go back to members or any individuals. We might as well spend every penny defending TASO and keeping our independence as officials.
My position is that I would rather TASO spend my dues money on training, updating the website, etc...I'm not thinking TASO will cease to exist because i've not seen anything proposed by UIL that would do away with it. Even IF TASO were to fold up - I would still rather them spend my dues money on Officials rather than Attorney's.
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My position is that I would rather TASO spend my dues money on training, updating the website, etc...I'm not thinking TASO will cease to exist because i've not seen anything proposed by UIL that would do away with it. Even IF TASO were to fold up - I would still rather them spend my dues money on Officials rather than Attorney's.
^flag
Coot: It's called hard-line negotiating. We negotiate for the best thing that TASO can possibly reap from all of this mess. I don't know if reality has set in with you lately, but TASO is in the fight for its life. We may as well have the resources available for litigation, for without it, TASO really doesn't stand a prayer.
I will not be a party to nor will I ever acknowledge the leadership role of anybody over there on Manor Road. To do so would only make me look like some of the "TASO lemmings" who are willing to jump into the deep UIL Sea because they covet a playoff game or two. Without TASO, the avocation of high school officiating will severely go down the tubes to the whims and pleasures of the tiphat: Good UIL Dr. and his :!# Dancing Monkey! z^
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"I'm not thinking TASO will cease to exist because i've not seen anything proposed by UIL that would do away with it."
Have you watched the youtube video of Timmons speech? Seen the changes to Rule 1204? Also, Timmons is now referring to TASO as "the former association."
"Without TASO, the avocation of high school officiating will severely go down the tubes to the whims and pleasures of the Good UIL Dr. and his Wow Dancing Monkey! "
Well said. TASO, based on NFL , BCS conference, Super Bowl, Pro Bowl, and Championship Game representation, is the MOST SUCCESSFUL high school officials group in the country. Use any measure you want - TASO is the best in the country. Could it better? Of course. Will it be better under the UIL? Probably not.
"so the money cannot go back to members or any individuals" - well, technically it could, but the administrative cost of refunding that money would probably swallow up more money than the attorneys.
The UIL is a state agency. A state agency cannot be sued for breach of contract. Go ahead, signup for 10 years of "free registration" - you will have zero recourse when the UIL charges you $100 next year, says you have to be at subvarsity games two hours early, dictates who you work with, ignores chapter geographical boundaries, and drops your pay in half. Think that across the board state cuts won't affect our pay? TASO has always negotiated for us, but who will when TASO ceases to exist and you have to turn to Timmons and Breithaupt for improvement in pay, conditions and so forth?
This is a fight for what is right - the freedom to associate with whomever we choose, freedom from unneeded governmental regulation, freedom of choice... It is a fight TASO must take head on.
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"so the money cannot go back to members or any individuals" - well, technically it could, but the administrative cost of refunding that money would probably swallow up more money than the attorneys.
GF - not according to the law.
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"I'm not thinking TASO will cease to exist because i've not seen anything proposed by UIL that would do away with it."
Have you watched the youtube video of Timmons speech? Seen the changes to Rule 1204? Also, Timmons is now referring to TASO as "the former association."
"Without TASO, the avocation of high school officiating will severely go down the tubes to the whims and pleasures of the Good UIL Dr. and his Wow Dancing Monkey! "
Well said. TASO, based on NFL , BCS conference, Super Bowl, Pro Bowl, and Championship Game representation, is the MOST SUCCESSFUL high school officials group in the country. Use any measure you want - TASO is the best in the country. Could it better? Of course. Will it be better under the UIL? Probably not.
"so the money cannot go back to members or any individuals" - well, technically it could, but the administrative cost of refunding that money would probably swallow up more money than the attorneys.
The UIL is a state agency. A state agency cannot be sued for breach of contract. Go ahead, signup for 10 years of "free registration" - you will have zero recourse when the UIL charges you $100 next year, says you have to be at subvarsity games two hours early, dictates who you work with, ignores chapter geographical boundaries, and drops your pay in half. Think that across the board state cuts won't affect our pay? TASO has always negotiated for us, but who will when TASO ceases to exist and you have to turn to Timmons and Breithaupt for improvement in pay, conditions and so forth?
This is a fight for what is right - the freedom to associate with whomever we choose, freedom from unneeded governmental regulation, freedom of choice... It is a fight TASO must take head on.
Excellent Post
I would add a few other points
If we are UIL officials every one of us would be eligible to join a teachers association (union). They would then advocate for us to be given full state employee rights, and we would then be available to have full due process of state employees. This would cause 2 horrible consequences to UIL. Inability to get rid of poor officials (which is one of their main points of contention), and cost (someone or some ten will have to process all of the paperwork not to mention other state employee benefits).
This is a fight to save the UIL from itself. We are the ones that are keeping the best interest of the Children in mind. Not the UIL. They can not see any long term liabilities (both on field and financially) that this is going to effect.
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Excellent Post
I would add a few other points
If we are UIL officials every one of us would be eligible to join a teachers association (union). They would then advocate for us to be given full state employee rights, and we would then be available to have full due process of state employees. This would cause 2 horrible consequences to UIL. Inability to get rid of poor officials (which is one of their main points of contention), and cost (someone or some ten will have to process all of the paperwork not to mention other state employee benefits).
This is a fight to save the UIL from itself. We are the ones that are keeping the best interest of the Children in mind. Not the UIL. They can not see any long term liabilities (both on field and financially) that this is going to effect.
The UIL tried to get by this issue in its registration process. There is a statement that says something about you understanding you are not an employee of the UIL and have no rights as an employee.
No, I have not registered, but I've seen this disclaimer.
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The UIL tried to get by this issue in its registration process. There is a statement that says something about you understanding you are not an employee of the UIL and have no rights as an employee.
No, I have not registered, but I've seen this disclaimer.
That is where the teachers union comes in. In multiple rulings they have declared that cafeteria workers, secretaries, bus drivers do not have any rights. This ruling then gets turned over with help of the teachers associations. It basically does not matter what they claim you are it matters what the courts claim you are. I still believe the best litigation strategy is a discrimination suit. Why are they discriminating against sports officials and not requiring UIL One act, band, and debate officials to registrar. After all the UIL was established to organize Debate officials back in the day.
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That is where the teachers union comes in. In multiple rulings they have declared that cafeteria workers, secretaries, bus drivers do not have any rights. This ruling then gets turned over with help of the teachers associations. It basically does not matter what they claim you are it matters what the courts claim you are. I still believe the best litigation strategy is a discrimination suit. Why are they discriminating against sports officials and not requiring UIL One act, band, and debate officials to registrar. After all the UIL was established to organize Debate officials back in the day.
That's what I have been saying. If they start registering the band competition judges, and charge them the same fee they charge me, then I say let's go. There is no difference.
Same thing for other service providers. Since I am simply providing my services to the local ISD, the UIL is registering (and later charging) me for access. I they doing the same for the other local vendors; plumbers, phone service providers, Xerox, office supply companies, etc.