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Football Officiating => NCAA Discussion => Topic started by: TXMike on March 11, 2011, 10:56:56 AM
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COLLEGE FOOTBALL OFFICIATING, LLC
BLOCKING BELOW THE WAIST
The rules committee made some important changes to the rule for blocking
below the waist for the first time in many years. Here we take a look at the changes,
what’s new, what’s not changed, and some play situations.
Here’s the rule:
Rule 9-1-6 (Replaces current 9-1-2-e)
Blocking Below the Waist
ARTICLE 6.
There shall be no blocking below the waist (Rule 2-3-2).
Exceptions:
1. Against the ball carrier.
2. Before a change of possession on scrimmage downs that do not include kicks,
blocking below the waist is allowed as follows:
(a) Players of the offensive team who at the snap are
(1) on the line of scrimmage more than seven yards from the middle lineman of
the offensive formation, or
(2) in the backfield outside the tackle box, or
(3) in motion,
may block below the waist only along a north-south line or toward the sideline adjacent
to them at the snap.
(b) Players of the offensive team who at the snap are inside the tackle box or on the line
of scrimmage inside the seven-yard limit may block below the waist.
(c) Players of the defensive team who at the snap are inside the blocking zone extended
to the sideline may block below the waist inside that area until the blocking zone
disintegrates (Rule 2-3-6-b) except against a Team A player in position to receive a
backward pass.
PENALTY: Administer as a Personal Foul
Notice the addition of the last phrase, regarding a Team A player about to receive a backward pass. The original statement would have legalized something that in previous years was a foul, and that was not the committee’s intent.
What’s New
1. The default is this: it is illegal to block below the waist. This is a break from the past: now blocking below the waist is an illegal action that is permitted ONLY in those circumstances that are specified by rule. This is an important philosophical flip that acknowledges the safety issues and places blocking below the waist in the category of clipping.
2. The line through “the original position of the ball” is no longer part of the rule. Under the new rule the location of the ball at the snap doesn’t matter. As we will see, the sideline closer to a player at the snap determines the direction he is allowed to block low.
3. The 10-yard limit is gone. This is a very significant change. In previous years if a block below the waist was illegal 9.5 yards downfield, the same block was legal at 10.1 yards—which made coaching, playing and officiating this rule very difficult. Under the new rule if a block below the waist is illegal, it is illegal everywhere.
4. Reference to “scrimmage kick formation” is gone. Blocking below the waist is illegal throughout a down in which there is free kick or a scrimmage kick…period.
5. Direction of the block: legal north-and-south or toward the original adjacent sideline. If a Team A player is restricted at the snap in blocking below the waist—which means he is a back in motion or outside the tackle box, or a lineman outside the seven-yard limit—then he may legally block below the waist only along the north-south line or at an angle toward the sideline closer to him when the ball was snapped. This stays the same throughout the down, so the officials do not have to keep track of where the ball was snapped or where this player is with respect to that location when he blocks. Put another way, if he blocks low at any angle toward the other sideline it’s a foul—anywhere on the field.
6. Defensive players are more restricted than before. The only Team B players who may block below the waist are those who at the snap are in the blocking zone extended---that is, the 6 x 10 yard strip that runs sideline to sideline—and they can do so only until the blocking zone itself disintegrates. This effectively means D-linemen and linebackers. They still aren’t allowed to block low on an offensive player in position to receive a backward pass.
What’s The Same
1. Backs inside the tackle box and Team A linemen within the seven-yard limit may block low anywhere and anytime. This will be a disappointment to many who want more restrictions on blocking below the waist. Most of the players on Team A will still be able legally to block below the waist in any direction anywhere on the field.
2. Low blocks are still illegal on downs involving kicks—but as noted above the language about “scrimmage kick formation” has been removed. This means that blocking below the waist is not allowed on “quick kicks.”
3. Low blocks are still illegal after changes of possession. As before, once the ball changes hands no one can block below he waist.
PLAY SITUATIONS
1. Third and seven at the A-30. The ball is at the left hash mark. Back A22 is split outside the tackle box to his left, and B40 moves out to cover him. The handoff goes to back A44 who runs up the middle and is tackled at the A-45. As the play develops A22 blocks B40 below the waist at the A-35. The direction of his block is (a) straight ahead along the north-south line; (b) directly toward the sideline to A22’s left; (c) off the north-south line at a slight angle toward the sideline to his right. RULING: Because of his position A22 is restricted in how he may legally block below the waist. His adjacent sideline is to his left. (a) Legal block, because it is along the north-south line. (b) Legal block, because it is toward his adjacent sideline. (c) Foul, illegal block below the waist. The block is directed toward the non-adjacent sideline. Fifteen yards at the spot of the foul.
2. Third and seven at the A-30. The ball is at the left hash mark. Back A22 is lined up inside the tackle box just behind the right tackle. Tight end A88 is on the line six yards to the left of the snapper in a balanced-line formation. The handoff goes to back A44 who runs up the middle and is tackled at the A-45. As the play develops A22 blocks B40 below the waist at the A-35 and A88 blocks B55 below the waist at the A-40. RULING: These blocks are legal regardless of their location or direction because at the snap both A22 and A88 are positioned such that they are not restricted from blocking below the waist.
3. Third and seven at the A-30. The ball is at the left hash mark. Back A22 is split outside the tackle box to his left, and B40 moves out to cover him. The handoff goes to back A44 who sweeps around the right end and is tackled at the B-45. As the play develops B40 runs to his left to follow the play and A22 chases him. At the A-45 beyond the right hash mark A22 overtakes B40 and blocks him below the waist at the side or front. The direction of this block is (a) toward the left sideline; (b) directly along the north-south line; (c) slightly off the north-south line toward the right sideline. RULING: Because of his position A22 is restricted in how he may legally block below the waist. His adjacent sideline is to his left. (a) Legal block, because it is toward A22’s adjacent sideline. (b) Legal block, because it is along the north-south line. (c) Foul, illegal block below the waist. The block is directed toward the non-adjacent sideline. Fifteen yards at the spot of the foul. NOTE: In previous years this block would have been legal because it is directed away from the original position of the ball. Under the new rule the original position of the ball does not matter. A22 may not block low in a direction away from his adjacent sideline.
4. Third and seven at the A-30. Split end A88 is on his scrimmage line wide to the right side, eight yards from the middle lineman. During a running play A88 blocks below the waist against B66, the block directed toward A88’s left. This block occurs (a) at the A-39; (b) at the A-41. RULING: (a) and (b) Foul, illegal block below the waist. Because of his position at the snap A88 is restricted in blocking below the waist. His adjacent sideline is to his right. Since in each case the block is directed away from his adjacent sideline, it is illegal. NOTE: In previous years the action in (b) would have been legal because it occurs beyond the 10-yard limit. The 2011 rule change erases the 10-yard limit.
5. Third and seven at the A-30. Split end A88 is on his scrimmage line wide to the right side, eight yards from the middle lineman. Linebacker B55 is directly in front of A88, at the A-32. After the snap before the ball leaves the blocking zone B55 blocks below the waist (a) against A88 at the line of scrimmage or (b) against back A22 who is at the A-28 in position to receive a backward pass from the quarterback. RULNG: (a) Legal block. At the snap B55 is in the blocking extended and his block occurs before the blocking zone disintegrates. (b) Foul, illegal block below the waist against a Team A player in position to receive a backward pass. Fifteen yards at the basic spot, plus automatic first down.
6. Third and seven at the A-30. Team A is in a balanced-line formation with the ball at the left hash mark. Back A22 sets up outside the tackle box to the left. As quarterback A11 under center begins to call signals A22 starts in motion to his right. At the snap A22 is five yards directly behind A11 and serves as A11’s lead blocker on a sweep to the right. At the A-31 A22 blocks below the waist against defensive end B99; the direction of the block is toward the right sideline. RULING: Foul, illegal block below the waist. Because A22 is in motion at the snap he is restricted in blocking below the waist, even though he is inside the tackle box. His adjacent sideline is to his left (the near sideline at the snap) and his low block is made toward the right sideline.
7. Punter A38 is in deep punt formation with three personal protectors positioned five yards in front of him. Defensive end B81 blocks one of the personal protectors below the waist. The play is (a) a punt; (b) a fake with A38 carrying the ball on a sweep. RULING: In both cases B81 should be flagged for an illegal block below the waist. (a) The block takes place during a down involving a kick. (b) The block by B81 occurs after the blocking zone disintegrates.
8. A11 is lined up in a shotgun formation, five yards deep. He quick-kicks the ball. During the down any player blocks an opponent below he waist. RULING: Foul, illegal block below the waist. By default blocking below the waist is a foul, and this situation does not fit any of the exceptions.
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Interesting change of wording on BBW on kicks.
3rd and 10 for Team A. They run a sweep play. While the blocking zone is intact, defensive end B99 blocks the offensive player opposite him below the waist in an attempt to create disruption on the play. The tactic works, but the block also seen by the running back (who happens to be looking in that area for his gap to get upfield). The running back attempts to get to the edge, but the defense prevent this. As he gets to near the sideline, and just before he is going to be tackled for a 5 yard loss, the running back punts the ball directly out of bounds, knowing that Team B have already blocked below the waist on the play.
According to my interpretation of what is posted above, the result of this play is a 1st down for Team A. Or have I missed something?
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I believe your interp is correct but I wonder how many guys would throw that very late flag? I seriously doubt that is the intent of the rule.
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I believe your interp is correct but I wonder how many guys would throw that very late flag? I seriously doubt that is the intent of the rule.
Disagree. I don't think defense can be penalized during this "quick kick" because they had no knowledge the ball would be kicked....common sense must prevail.
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The Air Force still is not requiring guys to learn to read? ;)
I said the intent was NOT to penalize this type of act.
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The quick kick scenario is no different than from past years.
I think the new rule will be much easier to officiate especially with crews of 3,4 or 5 officials. 7 man crews can stay with keys to see where they came from and where they went. If not north/ south or to the sideline nearest them it is a foul.
The problem is going to come from defensive coaches who have taught OLB & CB to cut the lead blockers to allow someone else to make the tackle.
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I do have a problem with this rule.
Play 1: A back who is lined up completely outside the tackle goes down field 15 yards and blocks below the waist away from the nearest sideline from where he was postioned at the snap. Ruling: Foul
Play 2: A back who is lined up behind the guard goes down field 15 yards and blocks below the ways away from the nearest sideline from where he was positioned at the snap. Ruling: Legal block
Why is play 1 considered a "safety" issue but play 2 is not?
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Interesting change of wording on BBW on kicks.
3rd and 10 for Team A. They run a sweep play. While the blocking zone is intact, defensive end B99 blocks the offensive player opposite him below the waist in an attempt to create disruption on the play. The tactic works, but the block also seen by the running back (who happens to be looking in that area for his gap to get upfield). The running back attempts to get to the edge, but the defense prevent this. As he gets to near the sideline, and just before he is going to be tackled for a 5 yard loss, the running back punts the ball directly out of bounds, knowing that Team B have already blocked below the waist on the play.
According to my interpretation of what is posted above, the result of this play is a 1st down for Team A. Or have I missed something?
Your fundamemntal question is valid, and needs a response from RR, but the specific play you offered, although possible, is highly unlikley to present a problem. I would venture to say that, during a typical 'sweep' play, the running back is either handed or tossed the ball more than 3 yards behind the NZ. So, in the vast majority of 'sweep' plays, the ball has left the BZ, and left it quickly, so there can no longer be BBW by any B player, except on the ball-carrier. In your scenario, the BZ would have, in all liklelihood, already disintegrated before B99 made his block.
But, certainly, plausible scenarios can be conceived whereas the block you describe would, indeed, appear to everyone to be a legitimate block at the moment it occurs, but then becomes illegal by subsequent play. And I think we all agree that it doesn't seem to fall within the intent of this rule.
Plausible example:
Team A is in a "wide splits" formation, with OT A77 6 yards from the snapper. B66 is head-up on A77, and immediately cuts A77 at the snap. QB A11 takes the hand-to-hand snap, runs laterally behind the offensive line (less tha 3 yards behind the NZ) for two steps, then drops back four yards and punts the ball downfield.
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The quick kick scenario is no different than from past years.
That is not true.
Unless a scrimmage kick was made from a scrimmage kick formation, then BBW was legal, for both teams, until a physical change of team possession. So, Team A might have "quick kicked" the ball, but BBW was perfectly legal until Team B got possession. The 2011 rule appears to make BBW illegal by both teams from snap to dead-ball, if there is a legal kick any time during the down.
Very different.
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Your fundamemntal question is valid, and needs a response from RR, but the specific play you offered, although possible, is highly unlikley to present a problem. I would venture to say that, during a typical 'sweep' play, the running back is either handed or tossed the ball more than 3 yards behind the NZ. So, in the vast majority of 'sweep' plays, the ball has left the BZ, and left it quickly, so there can no longer be BBW by any B player, except on the ball-carrier. In your scenario, the BZ would have, in all liklelihood, already disintegrated before B99 made his block.
But, certainly, plausible scenarios can be conceived whereas the block you describe would, indeed, appear to everyone to be a legitimate block at the moment it occurs, but then becomes illegal by subsequent play. And I think we all agree that it doesn't seem to fall within the intent of this rule.
Plausible example:
Team A is in a "wide splits" formation, with OT A77 6 yards from the snapper. B66 is head-up on A77, and immediately cuts A77 at the snap. QB A11 takes the hand-to-hand snap, runs laterally behind the offensive line (less tha 3 yards behind the NZ) for two steps, then drops back four yards and punts the ball downfield.
I completely agree that there are blocks by B which we don't consider fall under the intent of the rule, but do fall within the written wording as illegal. (Perhaps I am also more used to some of the slower playing speeds over here in Europe as well, hence my scenario play :D ). I do consider it a bit harsh on Team B to penalise them retrospectively for something that (i) has not happened, and (ii) is not obvious that it may well happen, which is the case on quick kicks with the current wording.
The intention to prevent BBW on quick kicks which, by design, won't be expected or from a scrimmage kick formation, means we are going to have to start remembering otherwise legal BBWs for future reference in some situations "just in case".
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Interesting change of wording on BBW on kicks.
3rd and 10 for Team A. They run a sweep play. While the blocking zone is intact, defensive end B99 blocks the offensive player opposite him below the waist in an attempt to create disruption on the play. The tactic works, but the block also seen by the running back (who happens to be looking in that area for his gap to get upfield). The running back attempts to get to the edge, but the defense prevent this. As he gets to near the sideline, and just before he is going to be tackled for a 5 yard loss, the running back punts the ball directly out of bounds, knowing that Team B have already blocked below the waist on the play.
According to my interpretation of what is posted above, the result of this play is a 1st down for Team A. Or have I missed something?
Understand what you are saying. Would I flag it? No. The spirit and intent of this Rule is surely that the defender here has done nothing wrong. It's a regular play and he has blocked low inside the zone while the zone is still there and the O line guy must be prepared for such a block.
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Question
Team A has 6 linemen - 10 total players. How do we determine if A lineman can BBW away from the sideline adjacent to them at the snap?
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Question
Team A has 6 linemen - 10 total players. How do we determine if A lineman can BBW away from the sideline adjacent to them at the snap?
Hmmm. Don't follow the question. Don't see what the number of linemen has to do with this rule. If they are within 7 yards of the middle lineman at the snap, they may BBW anywhere, any direction any time (until a physical change of possession, or unless a legal kick is made - then all players of both teams appear to be retroactively prohibited from BBW, period). If they are more than 7 yards away from the middle lineman, then, yes, they are only allowed to BBW toward their sideline or parallel to the sidelines ("north-south").
How do we know where 7 yards from the middle lineman is? Now there's a good question. Perhaps that's the essence of your question. Without a full complement of linemen in "normal" positions, what do we use as landmarks? I suppose our experience will tell us. If we can visualize a 'fourth' person removed from the middle lineman, in 'normal' positions, he would likely be more than 7 yards out.
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I think Diablo is trying to make the point that there is no middle lineman if they are 6. Perhaps you could use the midpoint between the two middle linemen, but there's nothing written to support that.
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I think Diablo is trying to make the point that there is no middle lineman if they are 6. Perhaps you could use the midpoint between the two middle linemen, but there's nothing written to support that.
Ah. A math question. No wonder I was confused. ???
In that case, I would use my judgment as to which side of the line was 'short,' and visualize the 7th linemen, and let that determine the middle lineman. No, I won't know for cerain if that was the correct side, and Team A would most assuredly always disagree with me (if I have to throw a flag), but that's what they get for putting the judgment on me.
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Good discussion -- I think some definition of 'adjacent sideline' may have to be added to Rule 2. Picture this:
1. Ball will be snapped on right hash
2. A85 lines up in the right slot (short side of field),
3. A85 goes in motion toward the wide side (left hash)
4. A85 is past the snapper, say behind the left tackle at the snap, but well short of the middle of the field
Leads to a couple questions:
1. Where's the adjacent sideline for A85?
2. Can A85 legally block low toward the wide side sideline?
Based on the previous language, if A85 blocked low toward the wide side sideline, that was a legal block. Based on this new language, looks like it would be a foul because A85 is closer to the right sideline at the snap.
From a keys/mechanics standpoint, it puts a real premium on the wing officials knowing where that motion guy is at the snap and staying with that key until contact.
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Based on the previous language, if A85 blocked low toward the wide side sideline, that was a legal block. Based on this new language, looks like it would be a foul because A85 is closer to the right sideline at the snap.
From a keys/mechanics standpoint, it puts a real premium on the wing officials knowing where that motion guy is at the snap and staying with that key until contact.
wings AND all downfield guys will have to perk up if anyone has a BBW foul. That should be a part of every pre-game this year. "If anyone has a BBW, slow down and ask the questions: who's key was he, was he in the zone, what side did he start on, and what sideline did he block low toward?"
Should be an interesting conversation.
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Good discussion -- I think some definition of 'adjacent sideline' may have to be added to Rule 2. Picture this:
1. Ball will be snapped on right hash
2. A85 lines up in the right slot (short side of field),
3. A85 goes in motion toward the wide side (left hash)
4. A85 is past the snapper, say behind the left tackle at the snap, but well short of the middle of the field
Leads to a couple questions:
1. Where's the adjacent sideline for A85?
2. Can A85 legally block low toward the wide side sideline?
Based on the previous language, if A85 blocked low toward the wide side sideline, that was a legal block. Based on this new language, looks like it would be a foul because A85 is closer to the right sideline at the snap.
From a keys/mechanics standpoint, it puts a real premium on the wing officials knowing where that motion guy is at the snap and staying with that key until contact.
Yeah, it won't be the nearest sidelne. It will be the sideline opposite of him from the middle lineman. May not always make sense, but....
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1. A73 pulls from his LG position at the snap and leads the runner around the Right side of the offensive line and proceeds up the field on the top of the numbers, 20 yards downfield, A73 sees Safety B2 approaching from the center of the field and A73 blocks B2 low.
2. A88 from his position on the end of the line fires off and blocks B4 initially at the snap, he releases B4 after a few seconds and proceeds up the field, 20 yards downfield, A88 sees Safety B2 approaching from the center of the field and A88 blocks B2 low.
So in the name of safety... play 1 is legal, but play 2 is not, if I am understanding this deal correctly, we didn't make it easier to officiate this, we made it much much harder to not only officiate, but to explain. So A73 and A88 both blow out B2's knee with their respective blocks.
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1. A73 pulls from his LG position at the snap and leads the runner around the Right side of the offensive line and proceeds up the field on the top of the numbers, 20 yards downfield, A73 sees Safety B2 approaching from the center of the field and A73 blocks B2 low.
2. A88 from his position on the end of the line fires off and blocks B4 initially at the snap, he releases B4 after a few seconds and proceeds up the field, 20 yards downfield, A88 sees Safety B2 approaching from the center of the field and A88 blocks B2 low.
So in the name of safety... play 1 is legal, but play 2 is not, if I am understanding this deal correctly, we didn't make it easier to officiate this, we made it much much harder to not only officiate, but to explain. So A73 and A88 both blow out B2's knee with their respective blocks.
On play 2, the block may be legal - can't tell by the description, If the block is "north-south" (easily conceivable) or toward his "adjacent" sideline (not likely, if B2 is approcahing from the center of the field), it would be legal. But, if his block is away from his "adjacent" sideline, then, yes, that would be illegal. Your are not wrong, though, The new rule is not necessarily easier to officiate. At least not today.
Consider these: A) QB A11 is 5 yards behind the NZ and is in his passing motion but has not yet released the ball when B77 cuts him at the knees. A11 is still the ball-carrier, so, by 2010 and 2011 rules - legal action, because the ball-carrier may be blocked below the waist by any B player, anywhere, anytime.
B) QB A11 has just released a pass 5 yards behind the NZ when B77 cuts him at the knees. By 2010 and 2011 definitions (today), A11 is not a ball-carrier - he is a passer. By 2010 rules - legal action. By 2011 rules (by the language as of today), Team B is prohibited from BBW - period (except against the ball-carrier)- once the ball has left the Blocking Zone. So, this would be a foul. Is this intended? Maybe. Maybe not. Recall there was an item in the NCAA rules change questionnaire regarding taking some measure to protect passers against low blocks. Maybe this is a response to that issue. But, you'd think there would be some example play or some specific discsussion of this, if that were the case.
Another one tough to officiate, if this is to be the case.
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2. A88 from his position on the end of the line fires off and blocks B4 initially at the snap, he releases B4 after a few seconds and proceeds up the field, 20 yards downfield, A88 sees Safety B2 approaching from the center of the field and A88 blocks B2 low.
As I understand the rules, if end A88 was positioned within 7 yards of the middle lineman (conceiveable for a tight end), he can block below the waist north-south or towards either sideline.
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yeah, my intent was that he was spread wide, thus not exempt from the block low in any direction at any time exemption, but his action is identical to the RG 20 yards down the field, blocking away from his adjacent sideline with the same result to the safety and one was a foul and one was not. all because where he "originated", which in this instance had nothing to do with the action at the time. ???
So, if this rule is for safety, B2 is just as injured whether the block is from a lineman or a wideout.
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Does anyone happen to have a new diagram for blocking below the waist as it pertains to the new rules and language?
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wings AND all downfield guys will have to perk up if anyone has a BBW foul. That should be a part of every pre-game this year. "If anyone has a BBW, slow down and ask the questions: who's key was he, was he in the zone, what side did he start on, and what sideline did he block low toward?"
Should be an interesting conversation.
We discussed this in a study session the other night. We basically came to the conclusion that on any BBW down field there will be a flag ^flag and then a discussion ^talk to try to determine whose key was involved and where the direction of the block was, etc.
If nothing changes, they may have to make BBW eligible for replay to see who was who...................................
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Here is my rough understanding of the offensive exceptions... comments, ideas for enhancements
# took out previous version of pdf, version 2 is on page 2.
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Here is my rough understanding of the offensive exceptions... comments, ideas for enhancements
Looks good, but you just need to add the 7 yard zone on the LOS.
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yup, read it, but didn't process it... version 2..
[attachment deleted by admin]
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yup, read it, but didn't process it... version 2..
Seems accurate enough for Team A (although, if this was mine, I'd throw in that these folks may "block below the waist (unless in a combination block with a teammate blocking above the waist)."
How about a diagram for Team B?
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Thanks...
How about a general disclaimer that this is in lieu of any other blocking rules that might be violated during the play??
I will get to Team B tomorrow...
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Thanks...
How about a general disclaimer that this is in lieu of any other blocking rules that might be violated during the play??
I will get to Team B tomorrow...
I like it the way you have it.
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The defense....
[attachment deleted by admin]
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The defense would have been a lot easier to comprehend if they just said any defensive player within 3 yards of the line of scrimmage at the snap may block below the waist until the ball leaves the blocking zone.
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The defense would have been a lot easier to comprehend if they just said any defensive player within 3 yards of the line of scrimmage at the snap may block below the waist until the ball leaves the blocking zone.
Agreed.
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Does anyone happen to have a new diagram for blocking below the waist as it pertains to the new rules and language?
Take any formation and then draw a vertical line N/S through any restricted player. If they are on the left side of the formation, they can block left of the line but not right and vice versa. That is the diagram I have seen.
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The defense....
That appears to be accurate, based on what we know today. That being the case, the scenarios that, I think, need specific interpretation or clarification are:
Situation 1
1/10, 50. A11, 5 yards behind the NZ, takes a direct snap and looks for receivers downfield. Then:
a) before A11 is able to throw a pass, B55 dives and contacts A11 at the knees, where A11 falls to the ground with the ball, or
b) just before A11 releases a pass that A88 catches and runs out of bounds at the B-45, B55 dives and contacts A11 at the knees, or
c) just after A11 releases a pass that A88 catches and runs out of bounds at the B-45, B55 dives and contacts A11 at the knees. (Note: The timing of this contact is such that, if above the waist and below the head, and not with the defender's helmet, would NOT be ruled roughing the passer).
Situation 2
1/10, 50. A11 receives a hand-to-hand snap, and, without stepping in any direction, looks to his left to throw a pass. Then;
a) just after he releases a pass that A88 catches and runs out of bounds at the B-45, but before the pass leaves the blocking zone, B55 (positioned within the blocking zone at the snap) dives and contacts A11 at the knees, or
b) just after he releases a pass that A88 catches and runs out of bounds at the B-45, but after the pass leaves the blocking zone, B55 (positioned within the blocking zone at the snap) dives and contacts A11 at the knees.
Please, Mr Redding, please address these scenarios.
Another that I think we already know the answer to, but is, nonetheless, troubling and problematic:
Situation 2
1/10, 50. At the snap from the left inbounds line, A59 is the snapper and middle lineman. After the snap, A59 and A66 lead blocking for ball-carrier A33. Near the right 9-yard mark, A59 blocks B22 at the knees. Simultaneously, B99 blocks A66 at the knees. A33 runs out of bounds at the right sideline at the B-45. B22 incurs a catastrophic career-ending knee injury.
Everybody seems to be hot and bothered about the marginally modified BBW rules for Team A, when, in fact, the dramatically changed BBW rules for Team B are the ones that need some interpretation plays from RR. The Team A changes boil down to everybody knowing (at a minimum) the number of their key. If a BBW occurs that isn't clearly legal, the covering official will need to throw his flag, and then, if he doesn't know, find out where the blocker came from. We may have a few wave-offs - that's OK and easy enough. But, how tough is it going to be if Rs have to judge low contact on a ball-carrier/passer, unless Rs are told that anything in question is a foul, and they'll get 100% support from their coordinators and commissioners?
I may be worrying about something that won't be an issue. But I don't think so.
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I think maybe were getting confused with this BBW and what you describe as an attempted tackle of a ball carrier/potential passer, (not a block below the waist). I think we treat it just as any contact with a QB attempting a pass, ie if defender could have held up after pass was released that's RTP, if not and contact was unavoidable (not to the helmet) then we have nothing.
Best regards,
Brad
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I think maybe were getting confused with this BBW and what you describe as an attempted tackle of a ball carrier/potential passer, (not a block below the waist). I think we treat it just as any contact with a QB attempting a pass, ie if defender could have held up after pass was released that's RTP, if not and contact was unavoidable (not to the helmet) then we have nothing.
Best regards,
Brad
For Situation 1a and 1b, that's right - just a block on the ball-carrier. But, for 1c, after he releases the ball on a pass, the ball carrier is no longer a ball carrier - he is a passer. BBW by Team B is prohibited once the ball leaves the blocking zone, except against the ball carrier - but there is no exception for blocks against the passer; thus 1c appears to be an illegal block below the waist. For situation 2a, the ball is still in the blocking zone, and the block is within the blocking zone (although I failed to specify that B55 was in the blocking zone at the snap - I have gone back and edited it to indicate such); thus, legal, as we know the new rule today. But, like 1c, 2b would appear to me to be an illegal block below the waist.
Somebody show me something in writing from RR that says I'm wrong.
Imagine a referee having to decide that the low block occurred before or after the pass was released.
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So if I am reading the diagram correctly an OLB in the 3-4 can be six yards away from the ball horizontally and 3 yards vertically and then at the snap crash into the blocking zone and block below the waist? In other words he doesn't have to be in the tackle box at the snap to enter the box and BBW so long as he is within 3 yards of the ball and the tackle box still exists. Am I right?
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Can a cornerback block below the waist within 3 yards of the ball? The phrase that is confusing me is "in that area". Does that mean the 10 X 6 blocking zone or the 10 X 6 blocking zone extended sideline to sideline? In the comments it says effectively linemen and linebackers, but if the zone extends sideline to sideline what about corners? Therefore, which "area" are they talking about?
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Can a cornerback block below the waist within 3 yards of the ball?
It doesn't matter what you call the defensive player, if he's in the blocking zone at the snap, he can block below the waist in the blocking zone until the ball leaves the blocking zone.
Brad
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So if I am reading the diagram correctly an OLB in the 3-4 can be six yards away from the ball horizontally and 3 yards vertically and then at the snap crash into the blocking zone and block below the waist? In other words he doesn't have to be in the tackle box at the snap to enter the box and BBW so long as he is within 3 yards of the ball and the tackle box still exists. Am I right?
Not quite correct. To be able to BBW, a B player must be in the Blocking Zone extended to the sidelines at the snap, and he must execute the block within the Blocking Zone extended to the sidelines, and before the ball leaves the 6'x10' Blocking zone. But even then, he can't block an eligible opponent below the waist until a legal forward pass is no longer possible by rule, and he can't block an opponent in position to receive a backward pass below the waist behind the NZ.
A B player outside the Blocking Zone extended to the sidelines at the snap simply may not block below the waist anywhere, anytime - period.
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Can a cornerback block below the waist within 3 yards of the ball? The phrase that is confusing me is "in that area". Does that mean the 10 X 6 blocking zone or the 10 X 6 blocking zone extended sideline to sideline? In the comments it says effectively linemen and linebackers, but if the zone extends sideline to sideline what about corners? Therefore, which "area" are they talking about?
The "area" to which RR refers is the Blocking Zone extended to the sidelines. A B player in that area at the snap may BBW, but only in that area, and only until the ball leaves the 6'x10' Blocking Zone. That ain't gonna be long, except on dive type plays, QB sneaks, etc.
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So a player positioned 10 yards from the ball and 2 yards from the LOS (ie. a cornerback) could BBW since he is in the zone extended. However, he is restricted from doing so
(a) against an eligible receiver
(b) on sweeps against a lead blocker since the ball has left the 10 X 6 area
Is that correct?
The player positioned in the blocking zone extended, then, can come down the line and BBW so long as the ball is in the 10 X 6 area say on an option play or a trap. The part I am having trouble with is why extend the blocking zone sideline to sideline? It seems almost impossible for a player to BBW from the extended area except for maybe an OLB who is just outside the original blocking zone.
It would have been easier to administer and explain (in my opinion) just to say any Team B player outside the the blocking zone may not BBW and players inside the zone at the snap may do so only until the zone disintegrates.
Excuse my ignorance on this but I am trying to get a handle on this so I can explain it to coaches. They are wanting to know if their OLB's in a 3-4 defense can crash in at the snap and scoop the linemen which apparently they can. They are also wanting to know why their CB's have to meet pulling guards and tackles high while the OL can block them low. I guess because, "them's the rules.".
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So a player positioned 10 yards from the ball and 2 yards from the LOS (ie. a cornerback) could BBW since he is in the zone extended. However, he is restricted from doing so
(a) against an eligible receiver
(b) on sweeps against a lead blocker since the ball has left the 10 X 6 area
Is that correct? Correct.
The player positioned in the blocking zone extended, then, can come down the line and BBW so long as the ball is in the 10 X 6 area say on an option play or a trap. The part I am having trouble with is why extend the blocking zone sideline to sideline? It seems almost impossible for a player to BBW from the extended area except for maybe an OLB who is just outside the original blocking zone. I don't know the rationale. Hopefully, this will get more explanation in the coming months.
It would have been easier to administer and explain (in my opinion) just to say any Team B player outside the the blocking zone may not BBW and players inside the zone at the snap may do so only until the zone disintegrates.
Excuse my ignorance on this but I am trying to get a handle on this so I can explain it to coaches. They are wanting to know if their OLB's in a 3-4 defense can crash in at the snap and scoop the linemen which apparently they can. They are also wanting to know why their CB's have to meet pulling guards and tackles high while the OL can block them low. I guess because, "them's the rules.". I don't understand coaching terms like "crash" and "scoop." In rule language, those B players in the Blocking Zone extended to the sidelines (the "area") at the snap may BBW in that "area" until the ball leaves the 6'x10' Blocking Zone, except against an eligible receiver or an opponent in position to receive a backward pass behind the NZ. So, if a linebacker in the "area" can block an opposing interior lineman below the waist in the "area" before the ball leaves the BZ, then OK. For most plays, that's gonna have to be quick. Yep - them's the rules.
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What RR said at Honig's clinic was that they extended the defensive box from sideline to sideline to allow the DE who may be positioned outside the tackle/TE to be included in people who can block below the waist until the ball leaves the zone.
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That makes sense because like I said they are about the only ones who could possibly do it. Thanks for all the help.
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....But even then, he can't block an eligible opponent below the waist until a legal forward pass is no longer possible by rule, ....
But eligible receivers may be blocked below the waist in the neutral zone, unless the pass is in the air.
Best regards,
Brad
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Where is the prohibition of the B player (assuming he was in that belt and the ball is still in the zone) blocking an eligible receiver coming from?
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Where is the prohibition of the B player (assuming he was in that belt and the ball is still in the zone) blocking an eligible receiver coming from?
Andrew as I'm sure you know, they can be blocked in the neutral zone but not beyond.
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Andrew as I'm sure you know, they can be blocked in the neutral zone but not beyond.
In the past, yes. But the new Rule 9-1-6 replaces current 9-1-2-e and that restriction is not in there.
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In the past, yes. But the new Rule 9-1-6 replaces current 9-1-2-e and that restriction is not in there.
Since RR made the statement regarding BBW on a player in position to receive a backward pass that the initial rule wording would have permitted something that was previously illegal, speculation would be that, likewise, BBW on eligible receivers beyond the NZ would fit that same mold, and will still be illegal (even within the BZE). Could be wrong. But I don't think so, since that rule was put in decades ago to prevent B players from cutting A's receivers coming off the line and preventing them from getting into their pass routes. To allow that would be a HUGE - I mean MONSTROUS - step backward for offensive production, and that ain't what the NCAA wants.
Players in position to receive a backward pass were overlooked. Methinks BBW on eligibles beyond the NZ was, likewise, overlooked.
Place your bets...
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But maybe the extended blocking zone with the NZ extended is intended to cover the old wording that "protected" an eligible receiver against a BBW beyond the NZ, and BBW will be allowed against an eligible receiver in the newly defined blocking zone. Since the eligible receiver can BBW against the defender it maybe just "evens out" the rule a bit?
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But maybe the extended blocking zone with the NZ extended is intended to cover the old wording that "protected" an eligible receiver against a BBW beyond the NZ, and BBW will be allowed against an eligible receiver in the newly defined blocking zone. Since the eligible receiver can BBW against the defender it maybe just "evens out" the rule a bit?
Understand what you are saying, and it could be. But, personally, I doubt it. We'll just have to wait and see. Hopefully, someone will raise these issues with RR, sooner than later.
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Here is my take on the whole situation. If you are going to get all aboard the safety train and this is in the name of safety and to protect the players, then do away with low blocks altogether. period. don't make up exceptions of exceptions where one player in a location on the field can make a block but another member of the same team in the same location cannot, that will not only confuse officials but the coaches and players as well.
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I think we are back to discussing the word "area" in the rule. It is unclear to me which "area" is being discussed. I understand the need for coaches to extend the zone to include their ends and linebackers because that is their scheme, but it just creates problems in the rule. I am for all or nothing which is I think what fencewire is advocating. It reminds me of the old chop block rule. Much, much simpler now. High/low, no go, period. Now that is simple.
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Also, notice this statement by RR:
Defensive players are more restricted than before. The only Team B players who may block below the waist are those who at the snap are in the blocking zone extended---that is, the 6 x 10 yard strip that runs sideline to sideline—and they can do so only until the blocking zone itself disintegrates. This effectively means D-linemen and linebackers. They still aren’t allowed to block low on an offensive player in position to receive a backward pass.
This seems to indicate that players in the extended zone except for those just outside the original zone are restricted somehow from BBW. If it is not because they can't block eligible receivers then why would they not be able to BBW?
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Also, notice this statement by RR:
Defensive players are more restricted than before. The only Team B players who may block below the waist are those who at the snap are in the blocking zone extended---that is, the 6 x 10 yard strip that runs sideline to sideline—and they can do so only until the blocking zone itself disintegrates. This effectively means D-linemen and linebackers. They still aren’t allowed to block low on an offensive player in position to receive a backward pass.
This seems to indicate that players in the extended zone except for those just outside the original zone are restricted somehow from BBW. If it is not because they can't block eligible receivers then why would they not be able to BBW?
IMHO, you're reading too much into his statement. "...effectively means D-linemen and linebackers..." doesn't mean exclusively. He is just using typical formations for his descriptive purposes. A DB up on the line "pressing" an opponent would also fall into the category of being allowed to BBW - although the timing factor of executing a legal BBW will make it very unlikely that a DB covering a wide split opponent would be able to get it done before the ball left the BZ (even if allowed against an eligible receiver beyond the NZ (etc.), which I believe will be unlikely).
A B player in the BZE (also referred to as the "area") is allowed to BBW in the BZE, until the ball leaves the BZ, except against a player in position to receive a backward pass, and MAYBE against an eligible receiver beyond the NZ until a legal forward pass is no longer possible.