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Football Officiating => General Discussion => Topic started by: wvwhitehat603 on October 05, 2011, 04:46:51 PM
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Guys mew to the board but have officated 30 years and this is a first for me. With the QB in shotgun formation, the snapper snaps the ball over his head beyond the neutral zone!!!! Is this a snap infraction or a fumble. This was a middle school game and it actually happened and was brought up for discussion.
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I've done it 33 years and have never seen a snapper get the snap to go forward over his head past the NZ. But if you say so...
I would have to say this is an illegal snap. A legal snap is supposed to be a backward pass, but this one went forward so how could it be a legal snap? Ruling it as an illegal snap would have the benefit of getting it killed for a semi-routine 5 yard penalty and not becoming a cheap turnover which might be way too exciting. (In fact, if the play didn't start with a legal snap, then the ball would never be live in the first place.) One thing it can't be is a fumble. A backward pass could only be muffed, not fumbled.
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So you are saying the snap went between his legs, up over his butt and back, and over his head forward? :!#
Hard to believe but if so, its obviously an snap infraction
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If the snap had gone backwards, bounced on the ground and rebounded across the NZ you fellas would not have any problem letting play continue and working it as a ball loose from a backward pass would you? Can't speak for NFHS but I do not know any NCAA rule that says snap has to stay behind the NZ to be legal.
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NFHS-
SECTION 40 SNAP
ART. 1 . . . A snap is the legal act of passing or handing the ball backward from
its position on the ground.
ART. 2 . . . The snap begins when the snapper first moves the ball legally other
than in adjustment. In a snap, the movement must be a quick and continuous
backward motion of the ball during which the ball immediately leaves the hand(s)
of the snapper and touches a back or the ground before it touches an A lineman.
ART. 3 . . . The snap ends when the ball touches the ground or any player.
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I would have to say this is an illegal snap. A legal snap is supposed to be a backward pass, but this one went forward so how could it be a legal snap?
Ah; but is the snap a backward pass because it's backwards? Or is it a backward pass because the rules say it is? Compare to the passer who starts a forward passing motion and gets hit so that the eventual pass goes backwards, but the rule says we call it a forward pass even though the direction of the ball fits the definition of a backward pass.
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For NCAA - It is a backwards pass by rule.
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In NCAA the definitions say that the ball has to actually leave the snapper's hand or hands in the (backwards) motion.
If it leaves the snapper's hand going forward then I've got a snap infraction.
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In NCAA the definitions say that the ball has to actually leave the snapper's hand or hands in the (backwards) motion.
If it leaves the snapper's hand going forward then I've got a snap infraction.
I'd rule it that way for FED games as well.
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In NCAA the definitions say that the ball has to actually leave the snapper's hand or hands in the (backwards) motion.
If it leaves the snapper's hand going forward then I've got a snap infraction.
agreed. not sure this would be physiologically possible, though, , unless the center had some really really long arms. :)
if the ball leaves his hands and travels backward, it's a live legal snap, right? say the QB is back in shotgun. center snaps it back softly. a huge gust of wind pushes the ball through the air beyond the NZ. no snap infraction foul, right? just a regular live ball.
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I have seen a snap bounce off the quarterback and roll up the snapper's back before landing on the ground right where he snapped it from. Of course, since it touched something besides air, it was legitimately backward. But I don't believe the rules would treat it any differently if there were, say, a strong gust of wind blowing the snap forward instead.
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If the snap had gone backwards, bounced on the ground and rebounded across the NZ you fellas would not have any problem letting play continue and working it as a ball loose from a backward pass would you? Can't speak for NFHS but I do not know any NCAA rule that says snap has to stay behind the NZ to be legal.
Absolutely, loose ball from a backward pass. (Still not really sure how a snapper in a normal snapper stance can physically get the ball to go forward without some kind of outside help...) Fumble rules do not apply. NCAA.
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I could see it.
Nervous kid doing a long snap and 'twitches' his hand at just the wrong time sending the ball in a high loop that ends up slightly forward.