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Football Officiating => NCAA Discussion => Topic started by: sj_31 on July 21, 2012, 09:46:25 PM

Title: Enforcement
Post by: sj_31 on July 21, 2012, 09:46:25 PM
B1 (a) intercepts a pass, or (b) catches A's punt, in his end zone. Prior to running the ball out of the end zone, B1 fumbles the ball out of the end zone and it is recovered/downed by B2 at the B-10. During the fumble, B3 clips A1 at the B-4.

Ruling and rule reference?
Title: Re: Enforcement
Post by: Atlanta Blue on July 21, 2012, 10:03:13 PM
Safety.  End of the run was in the EZ, foul was in advance of that spot, so enforcement from the end of the run.

10-2-2-d-2-b
Title: Re: Enforcement
Post by: sj on July 22, 2012, 01:19:09 PM
How about this one.

B1 intercepts a pass in his end zone. Prior to running the ball out of the end zone, B1 fumbles the ball out of the end zone and it goes out of bounds at the B10. During the fumble, B3 clips A1 at the B-4.

Title: Enforcement
Post by: ROAD2D1 on July 22, 2012, 01:26:21 PM
Safety in the passing situation as well
Title: Re: Enforcement
Post by: El Macman on July 22, 2012, 01:47:31 PM
Safety in the passing situation as well

The pure result of the play is a touchback. The fumble from the end zone out of bounds in the field of play triggers the forward fumble out of bounds rule. So the ball is returned to the spot of the fumble. The spot of the fumble (which is the end of the last run) is in the end zone, and Team A (not B) was responsible for putting the ball there. Thus, touchback. 10-2-2-d-2-a says that the Basic Spot in this case is the B-20. Apply the 3 and 1 principle at the Basic Spot, and the penalty is from the spot of the foul (B-4), 1/2 the distance. B, 1/10, B-2.

Title: Re: Enforcement
Post by: sj on July 22, 2012, 02:09:01 PM
The pure result of the play is a touchback.....

That gets to the point I wanted to be clear on. So the difference between play (a) cited by sj_31 and the play I give is that the result of the play, without foul, is different. So the ruling in his is a safety while mine is what you said...B 1/10 @ B2. Correct?

These plays are so similar that you would think the rulings would be the same.
Title: Enforcement
Post by: ROAD2D1 on July 22, 2012, 02:25:58 PM
I love this site.... El Macman breaks this down really well and clarifies my mistake. I have also struggled with this question as there was a similar one on the Big Sky test. I stand corrected and appreciate the clarification. 
Title: Re: Enforcement
Post by: clearwall on July 23, 2012, 11:49:41 AM
I've always been curious about that term's etymology...3 and 1. Can someone explain how that came to be? Sorry if this question sounds  cRaZy
Title: Re: Enforcement
Post by: Hawkeye on July 23, 2012, 01:48:57 PM
With respect to basic spot enforcement, fouls may occur in 4 different ways:
1. Team A foul behind the basic spot
2. Team A foul beyond the basic spot
3. Team B foul behind the basic spot,and
4. Team B foul beyond the basic spot.

Three of those scenarios get enforced from the basic spot, namely #2, 3 and 4
and One of them gets enforced from the spot of the foul, namely #1

Therefore, Three and One principal.

For ease of writing I used Team A and B, but really the team A designation above refers to the team in possession when the foul occurs and team B refers to the opponents of the team in possession.
Title: Re: Enforcement
Post by: clearwall on July 23, 2012, 03:07:45 PM
Thanks. I could never figure out the reason for that term
Title: Re: Enforcement
Post by: Andrew McCarthy on July 24, 2012, 12:34:30 PM
With respect to basic spot enforcement, fouls may occur in 4 different ways:
1. Team A foul behind the basic spot
2. Team A foul beyond the basic spot
3. Team B foul behind the basic spot,and
4. Team B foul beyond the basic spot.

Three of those scenarios get enforced from the basic spot, namely #2, 3 and 4
and One of them gets enforced from the spot of the foul, namely #1

Therefore, Three and One principal.

For ease of writing I used Team A and B, but really the team A designation above refers to the team in possession when the foul occurs and team B refers to the opponents of the team in possession.

I really wish they would reorder the scenarios. The way it's written now it's the One and Three Principal.
Title: Re: Enforcement
Post by: bossman72 on July 29, 2012, 02:41:45 PM
Thanks. I could never figure out the reason for that term

Likewise, they don't call it "ALL but one" because not ALL fouls use that principle like in NFHS.  NCAA has some fouls where they specify the enforcement spot and don't use 3 and 1. (example - Illegal Touching of a pass by a lineman).
Title: Re: Enforcement
Post by: sj_31 on August 01, 2012, 11:41:54 PM
As noted above, with regards to the All-But-One principle, it is not "Team A" and "Team B" but rather the "Team in possession/offense" and the "Team not in possession/defense"

Because Teams A and B retain their designations throughout a given down, applying the 3-and-1 using those definitions could result in an incorrect enforcement (especially on a test).

I know it's a technicality, but it's important.

(Same goes for the Fed and All-But-One)