RefStripes.com
Football Officiating => NCAA Discussion => Topic started by: TXMike on November 16, 2012, 09:09:53 PM
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http://youtu.be/O7NKseTMlGA (http://youtu.be/O7NKseTMlGA)
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don't you just love those announcers and their "knowledge" of the rules - especially that "tackle eligible" rule I keep hearing about but can never find - they must have a better rule book than me! :)
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Where do they find these guys. Stupid announcer is an understatement.
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Forget the announcers, what is with the OFFICIALS? How was this missed? I had this discussion last night with a fellow official who was just as confused about this rule, and I had to encourage him to re-read the rules to learn the correct call here. On our play, it was a try play and #50 was in the backfield and caught a pass. Luckily, he didnt score and the try was just ruled no good(i think the L held his flag back because of the score). Pro football really destroys people's NCAA rules knowledge.
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Forget the announcers, what is with the OFFICIALS? How was this missed? I had this discussion last night with a fellow official who was just as confused about this rule, and I had to encourage him to re-read the rules to learn the correct call here. On our play, it was a try play and #50 was in the backfield and caught a pass. Luckily, he didnt score and the try was just ruled no good(i think the L held his flag back because of the score). Pro football really destroys people's NCAA rules knowledge.
Just guessing here, since I'm not fluent on NCAA rules, but aren't the eligible numbers relevant on receivers of forward passes? This wasn't a forward pass.
I am going to assume that the officials were informed of this in the pregame.
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From the video this looks like a pretty close call as to pass being forward or not. Mechanics, who should make the call? The wing has correctly moved to the goal line, the referee is behind and does not have a good angle either. The pass is thrown from well behind the LOS so the umpire does not have a good angle either.
I think the officials made the only possible call - not obviously forward so no foul.
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Where do they find these guys. Stupid announcer is an understatement.
ok Clearwall - How was this "missed?"
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I think the officials made the only possible call - not obviously forward so no foul.
Sometimes it is better to be lucky than good. ;)
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I think it's a backward pass. The QB throws the ball from just ahead of B's 12, and it looks like he tries to throw it forward but then the momentum carries the ball backward to just behind B's 12.
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Where do they find these guys. Stupid announcer is an understatement.
Tom Luginbill is the ESPN "talent" in this piece.
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ok Clearwall - How was this "missed?"
As stated above, forward pass caught by a restricted lineman. Seems pretty egregious imho
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As stated above, forward pass caught by a restricted lineman. Seems pretty egregious imho
Which official can rule this a forward pass? H and L can't do it from the goal line. R can't do it from behind the QB. U can't do it from the LOS.
Besides, watching it frame-by-frame I think it is a backward pass (the camera angle is bad, though).
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As stated above, forward pass caught by a restricted lineman. Seems pretty egregious imho
while close - doesn't look forward to me. Got to go with those who saw it live. Not sure how you can so quickly label this one egregious when it's a legitimate debate.
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I donno, I guess I can see your argument after watching it really carefully again but I kind of think that makes my point valid. If I have to watch super slow-mo to convince myself it MIGHT be backward, I kind of have to go with what my first assumption was and that it was forward. Definitely can see your opinion, though.
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Which official can rule this a forward pass? H and L can't do it from the goal line. R can't do it from behind the QB. U can't do it from the LOS.
Question about this since I am not in-tuned to the 7 man mechanic. Wouldnt the S have the receiver on L's side, L would have the back going out? Why wouldnt L be able to rule on this if it was forward/Backward?
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I am on the same page as O. Pureheart.
Start with the video at 1:41. Note, the QB releases the ball from the B-12. Note, the just-released ball obscures the far hash mark designating the B-12. Then, A54 first contacts the ball at the B-12.25; hence, backward.
Remember, by rule the pass does not have to be truly backward. It just has to not be forward. So, even if A54 first touched it at the B-12.0, it would be considered a backward pass.
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Question about this since I am not in-tuned to the 7 man mechanic. Wouldnt the S have the receiver on L's side, L would have the back going out? Why wouldnt L be able to rule on this if it was forward/Backward?
As the ball is snapped from inside B-7, H and L move immediately towards the goal line after the snap (EFAF mechanics, but I think CCA has the same). So neither official is at the LOS where they might have a better (not good, just better) angle for this.
If this play happens at the B-30, L would be in a good position to rule on a forward/backward pass, as he might even take a step towards the offensive backfield.
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I have to agree that the pass is not forward. If replay is used in this conference, they would be able to definitively rule on this using the same views the rest of us are seeing.
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Looked legal to me. The announcers drive me nuts though. So much incorrect information in this short video.
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It was close. I turn off the sound so I dont have to listen to the talking Monkeys.
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Question about this since I am not in-tuned to the 7 man mechanic. Wouldnt the S have the receiver on L's side, L would have the back going out? Why wouldnt L be able to rule on this if it was forward/Backward?
L went to the goal line at the snap, taking away his angle for FW/BW pass
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L went to the goal line at the snap, taking away his angle for FW/BW pass
Yes, he did. If that's a criticism, it is totally unfair, because that is the prescribed mechanic for this situation. Granted, mechanics are "guidelines" and adjustments can (and should) be made when warranted, but this was not even a "rare" occurrence - this was in the "once in a lifetime" category. The L that could recognize this pass developing and move back to rule on the pass effectively, AND then beat the ball carreir to the goal line would be beyond all-universe. Especially considering the receiver was no one's receiver key. Thankfully, the play was ruled correctly.
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I say we count the announcer mistakes.
1. Lateral pass
2. Tackle eligible
3. If any part of the player touches any part of the pylon, it is a touchdown.
Did I miss any? sNiCkErS
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Yes, he did. If that's a criticism, it is totally unfair, because that is the prescribed mechanic for this situation. Granted, mechanics are "guidelines" and adjustments can (and should) be made when warranted, but this was not even a "rare" occurrence - this was in the "once in a lifetime" category. The L that could recognize this pass developing and move back to rule on the pass effectively, AND then beat the ball carreir to the goal line would be beyond all-universe. Especially considering the receiver was no one's receiver key. Thankfully, the play was ruled correctly.
Absoultely not a criticism - just explaining why the L wouldn't have a clear view of forward/backward. One of those rare situations where following the mechanics can take you out of a play. When in question, the pass is forward, so the on-field ruling is good, and then supported by replay.
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Absoultely not a criticism - just explaining why the L wouldn't have a clear view of forward/backward. One of those rare situations where following the mechanics can take you out of a play. When in question, the pass is forward, so the on-field ruling is good, and then supported by replay.
Amen, Rev.
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As someone who participated in this play, I'll agree with TX Mike that it is certainly better to be lucky than good. This was a play that we executed mechanically correct, which put us in a tough position to officiate the backwards pass. That said, the crew did get together right after the play to try and piece together all available information before we made the final ruling - or in this case, turn it over to replay to confirm an awesome ruling.
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I would almost guarantee that this play was discussed in pregame conference with the coach.
As soon as the crew saw the formation they knew what was potentially coming and they weren't just lucky. Saying that they were lucky is discrediting this crew and is coming from someone who watched the play over and over , slow-mo, Frame by frame, looking for something to squawk about on refstripes in a thread that he was itching to start. Nice job crew .
Oh yeah, you don't have to be versed in 7man mechanics to know that the S has no chance to make this call and if the pass is not clearly forward then it is backward so your argument is not supported at all clear.
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I don't know why my last post was removed. I was only showing support for fellow officials making money calls in the heat of battle. See definitions of instinct & luck and decide what was responsible for allowing the crew to get the call right.
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Heaven forbid there be any disagreement on anything as that tends to get the man behind the curtain tensed up and things start getting removed. I really can't believe that anyone who officiates for any length of time can be so sensitive that what is on an internet board is going to destroy their self-esteem. Oh well, at least we are not getting killed for what we post unlike in Iran.
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Your answer can be found here. If the filter picks it up, you will be zapped.
http://www.refstripes.com/forum/index.php?topic=9788.0
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I don't know why my last post was removed. I was only showing support for fellow officials making money calls in the heat of battle. See definitions of instinct & luck and decide what was responsible for allowing the crew to get the call right.
Apparently using the colloquial term for a {"Summer's Eve" bag}, even when not directly calling someone that, is not approved. Or perhaps it is the acronym for Bravo Sierra that is not approved.
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Let us pray 'cause we're now in church.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Your answer can be found here. If the filter picks it up, you will be zapped.
http://www.refstripes.com/forum/index.php?topic=9788.0
Can we have a list of what the filter picks up?
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You won't have to worry about it if you stay professional and pretend your mother or daughter will read your posts. ;)
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My mother would probably be very disappointed with me if she didn't think I was using my full vocabulary.