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Football Officiating => NCAA Discussion => Topic started by: TXMike on February 13, 2013, 01:32:36 PM

Title: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: TXMike on February 13, 2013, 01:32:36 PM
http://www.doubleazone.com/wps/wcm/connect/public/ncaa/resources/latest+news/2013/football+rules+committee+recommends+ejection+for+targeting+defenseless+players

Football Rules Committee recommends ejection for targeting defenseless players

By Ty Halpin
 NCAA.org

The NCAA Football Rules Committee took steps to further protect student-athletes by proposing a rule to eject players who target and contact defenseless players above the shoulders.

The committee, which met Monday-Wednesday, unanimously voted to increase the on-field penalty for targeting. The penalty, if approved by the Playing Rules Oversight Panel, will be a 15-yard penalty and automatic ejection of the player. The Panel meets on March 6 to review the proposals and membership comment.

“Student-athlete safety will always be one of our primary concerns,” said Troy Calhoun, chair of the committee and head coach at the United States Air Force Academy. “We all have a role to embrace when making a positive impact on our game. Taking measures to remove targeting, or above the shoulder hits on defenseless players, will improve our great sport.”

The action by the committee continues a progression to address dangerous contact through its rules. Targeting, which was initially approved by the committee as a separate foul in 2008, has been generally successful in terms of officiating application, which made the committee feel comfortable in adding to the penalty.

“The general consensus is that the officials on the field make this call properly the vast majority of the time and know what the committee is looking for with this foul,” said Rogers Redding, secretary-editor of the rules committee and national coordinator of officials for College Football Officiating, LLC. “This move is being made to directly change player behavior and impact player safety.”

The proposed rule will mirror the penalty for fighting. If the foul occurs in the first half of a game, the player is ejected for the remainder of the game. If the foul occurs in the second half or overtime of a game, the player is ejected for the remainder of the game and the first half of the next contest.

The committee has also decided, in an effort to address concerns when one of these plays is erroneously called, to make the ejection portion of the penalty reviewable through video replay. The replay official must have conclusive evidence that a player should not be ejected to overturn the call on the field. Additionally, a post-game conference review remains part of the rule and conferences always have the ability to add to a sanction.

Another area the committee has discussed in recent years deals with blocking below the waist. The past two years, the committee has adjusted rules governing these blocks in an attempt to remove some potentially dangerous plays from the game. The result has been a confusing and uneven rule that has not had the intended impact.

The proposed rule will focus on the block itself and allow these blocks in typical line play.

“What we’re trying to do is write the rule to protect the player that will need to take on this block,” said Calhoun. “So, the blocks from the front of this type in your typical line play are legal and anything that is from the side or back are not.”

Previously, the position of the player at the snap changed whether or not the player could block below the waist legally.

“This rule was hard to teach to officials, hard to teach to coaches and really difficult to understand overall,” said Redding. “That obviously wasn’t the intent and we believe our new proposal will clear up a lot of confusion and keep the positive safety elements of the rule in place.”

The committee also made several other proposals to improve the game. The committee proposed:
 •To add a 10-second runoff with less than a minute remaining in either half when the sole reason for the clock to stop is an injury.
•To establish three seconds as the minimum amount of time required to be on the game clock in order to spike the ball to stop the clock. If one or two seconds remain on the clock, there is only time for the offense to run one more play.
•To require a player that changes numbers during the game to report this to the referee, who will announce this.
•To only allow one player number to be worn by the same team and participate at the same position (e.g., two quarterbacks on the same team are not allowed to have the same number).
•To require teams to have either their jersey or pants contrast in color to the playing field.
•To allow the use of electronic communication by the on-field officiating crew after successful experimentation by the Southeastern Conference. This is not a required piece of equipment but will allow officiating crews to use this tool.
•To allow the Big 12 Conference to experiment with using an eighth official on the field in conference games. This official would be placed in the backfield opposite the referee.
•To allow instant replay to adjust the clock at the end of each quarter. Previously this provision was only in place for the end of each half.
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: Etref on February 13, 2013, 02:55:23 PM
So I wonder what exactly the new BBW will be.
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: TampaSteve on February 13, 2013, 02:55:39 PM
oh, 8-men crews   
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: Morningrise on February 13, 2013, 03:20:36 PM
The rule that ejects players for targeting ought to make clear that, if video review nullifies the ejection, that is not a "reversal" of an incorrect call, but rather a separate "severity determination" or something along those lines. No, coach, the replay official didn't conclude that the call was wrong, just that the personal foul was not ejection-caliber. Otherwise, why aren't we also nullifying the 15-yard penalty? We should not create a precedent for video review of all conduct judgment calls. Already this proposed rule is "breaking the seal" on that, a little bit. I want headshots out of the game as much as anyone, but if the committee is this concerned about "false positives" since the penalty is so severe, perhaps that's a sign the penalty is *too* severe.
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: FLBJ on February 13, 2013, 03:27:13 PM
What's the penalty if you try to spike with <3 seconds? Game over? Hope the clock guy knows that (and let's it run out...). Will it be a foul? What if the clock is running?

Was this an issue last year? Did I miss some games where someone spiked and the clock guy was slow/fast?
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: Morningrise on February 13, 2013, 03:32:12 PM
I think 0:02 is plenty of time to receive a snap and throw it down immediately. If a hard-and-fast rule is actually necessary, the cutoff should be <= 0:01, not 0:02.

In games with video replay, is this rule needed at all? The replay official can just check the clock at the moment when the pass bounces; either it's 0:00 or it's not.

In games WITHOUT video replay, this rule just replaces one judgment call (whether the spike was incomplete at 0:01 or 0:00) with another (whether the snap occurred at 0:03 or 0:02). I don't think the latter is any easier to officiate, nor do I think it makes the game any more fair.

What if the spike happens, the clock stops at 0:01, but the SJ runs in and swears that it ticked from 0:03 to 0:02 just before the snap? Although, if the rule were changed to 0:01 instead, that scenario would be a lot less likely to happen.
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: TXMike on February 13, 2013, 04:29:01 PM
As always, the devil is in the details so we have to wait and see the actual wording of these things.   But on the targeting ejection, I don't get it as stated.  If the review determins there was no targeting, then how can there be a penalty at all?  (Unless contact above the shoulders, even if unintentional, will now be a foul but intentional would result in an ejection)   Wonder if making the penalty so severe might actually result in fewer flags as guys will want to be REALLLY SURE before throwing the flag and "causing" a DQ?

As for blocking below the waist, seems that ,maybe we are going to be at the point where all low blocking from the side or rear (clipping ) is a foul regardless of where it happens and the status of the player who threw the block (restricted vs unrestricted). That would certainly make things easier to officiate.  I doubt the Academies are going to be happy with that.
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: Andrew McCarthy on February 13, 2013, 04:46:09 PM
I think the intent of the 3-second rule will be for it to apply to a stopped clock that will wind on the ready.  When the clock is stopped for a first down they will know in advance whether they have time to spike or not.

Just speculating.
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: dvasques on February 13, 2013, 05:13:06 PM
is it really fair to punish a team with 10 secs for having a player injured at the end of the game?
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: dvasques on February 13, 2013, 05:15:07 PM
Speculating on the wording of the BBW rule

Think it will only be allowed if from the front and within the extended neutral zone?
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: Diablo on February 14, 2013, 07:39:28 AM
is it really fair to punish a team with 10 secs for having a player injured at the end of the game?

Is it fair for a player to deliberately fake an injury in order to conserve time?

Does the NFL rule allow for the "injured" team to buy back the 10-sec runoff with a time out?
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: Osric Pureheart on February 14, 2013, 11:47:38 AM
I think the NFL rule works the other way round; it automatically charges timeouts until there's none left, and then it becomes a runoff.
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: justaLJ on February 14, 2013, 08:53:22 PM
Another summary, with some more details than the NCAA article.  Fun times ahead for wing guys with #14...

2013: BRIEF SUMMARY OF CHANGES
1.  ​Targeting fouls (9-1-3 and 9-1-4): Automatic disqualification. Penalty mimics fighting rule.
​--Instant Replay to evaluate ejection portion of penalty
 
2.​Blocking below the waist: greatly simplified
 
3.​10-second runoff option for injury inside one minute of a half (mimics helmet rule).
 
4.​Minimum time to spike the ball and still be able to run a play:  3 seconds.
 
5.​Expand the definition of UNS to include “unsporting” personal fouls.
 
6.​Remove “push” and “charge into” for assisting the ball carrier
 
7.​Player numbering:
​(a) Two players playing the same position may not wear the same number during the game;
​(b) when a player enters the game after changing his jersey number he reports to the referee who makes the announcement.
 
8.​Jersey numerals: must be a single color clearly contrasting the jersey color, irrespective of any border around the numerals.
 
9.​Either jersey or pants must contrast with field color.
 
10.​Towels must be between 4”X12” and 6”X12”
 
11.​Helmet off: player may remain in the game via a charged team timeout.
 
12.​Pylons may bear the same markings as the goal-post padding: manufacturer’s ​logo, team logo, conference logo.
 
13.​Microphones may be worn by officials for an intra-crew communication ​system.
 
14.​Switch chain/down box at half: 1st on PB side, 2nd opposite the press box. HL/SJ and LJ/FJ switch also.
 
15.​Clock status may be reviewed at the end of each quarter (not just in each ​half).
 
16.​Experiment:  Big 12 may experiment using an eighth official.
 
17.​Experiment: PAC-12, Big 12 and SEC: electronic tracking device on players.
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: mishatx on February 14, 2013, 10:24:36 PM

17.​Experiment: PAC-12, Big 12 and SEC: electronic tracking device on players.

(http://www.housearrestbracelet.com/image-files/dsc_0001.gif)
?
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: TXMike on February 15, 2013, 04:38:50 AM
Or this maybe ?
(http://common.ziffdavisinternet.com/util_get_image/29/0,1462,sz=1&i=294940,00.jpg)
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: bama_stripes on February 15, 2013, 05:48:23 AM
Quote
14.​Switch chain/down box at half: 1st on PB side, 2nd opposite the press box. HL/SJ and LJ/FJ switch also.

Anyone know the rationale for this?
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: James on February 15, 2013, 06:04:54 AM
I think they did this in NFL Europe.
The only rationale I can think of is to give both team's coaches a chance to complain to all the officials on the sideline...
Otherwise, it seems it just adds confusion.
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: Andrew McCarthy on February 15, 2013, 06:56:41 AM
Anyone know the rationale for this?
If they were smart they'd switch sides in the second half rather than the first so they wouldn't have to change the pregame duties.
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: TampaSteve on February 15, 2013, 07:34:16 AM
Considering they are technically changing positions, will S/F and H/L each need to change shirts at halftime too?   ;)
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: Rulesman on February 15, 2013, 09:27:51 AM
Anyone know the rationale for this?
NFL
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: Osric Pureheart on February 15, 2013, 09:43:11 AM
What's the lowest level that routinely uses an alternate line-to-gain stick and down box, out of interest?
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: Morningrise on February 15, 2013, 12:06:22 PM
6.​Remove “push” and “charge into” for assisting the ball carrier

Nice. The rule language more closely reflecting how the game is played, officiated, and accepted.

7.​Player numbering:
​(a) Two players playing the same position may not wear the same number during the game;
​(b) when a player enters the game after changing his jersey number he reports to the referee who makes the announcement.

What if the opponent is running a hurry-up offense? U of Oregon likes to snap the ball every thirteen seconds. Can a tired Oregon State defense just send in a guy with a new number, causing the R to stop everything for an announcement? Surely this would not be tolerated if it were routine. But they could at least save it for one crucial occasion.

And what if there are four seconds left in the half and the clock is running? Does the clock stop for the announcement? If so, a convenient number switch by Team A could be a free timeout. If not, Team B could pull the same stunt and prevent the last snap. The rule would have to call for the clock to stop when Team B, but not Team A, changes numbers.
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: Osric Pureheart on February 15, 2013, 05:58:51 PM
Nice. The rule language more closely reflecting how the game is played, officiated, and accepted.

The thought occurs that there was a very good reason why mass-momentum plays were banned in the first place.  Are they really sure that they want to loosen the rules up in this area when player safety is more of a hot-button issue than it's ever been?  It's a wider topic than just "concussions are serious business, yo".
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: zebra99 on February 16, 2013, 12:34:45 PM
Nice. The rule language more closely reflecting how the game is played, officiated, and accepted.

What if the opponent is running a hurry-up offense? U of Oregon likes to snap the ball every thirteen seconds. Can a tired Oregon State defense just send in a guy with a new number, causing the R to stop everything for an announcement? Surely this would not be tolerated if it were routine. But they could at least save it for one crucial occasion.

And what if there are four seconds left in the half and the clock is running? Does the clock stop for the announcement? If so, a convenient number switch by Team A could be a free timeout. If not, Team B could pull the same stunt and prevent the last snap. The rule would have to call for the clock to stop when Team B, but not Team A, changes numbers.

Last year in our conference we did announce number changes - very, very few - and we simply turned on the mic without stopping the game.  It never happened to me in a hurry up situation so don't have answers to that other than I doubt very much that they'll have us actually stop the game for the announcement.
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: Etref on February 16, 2013, 05:15:30 PM
Likely in a hurry up situation, they will not have time to "report in" as a different person with the same number.

Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: zebra99 on February 16, 2013, 06:24:42 PM
 Think I'll spend all my study time on 8, 9, 10 and 12......these are huge and for the sake of the game we must be diligent in enforcing these crucial rules!  :)
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: TXMike on February 17, 2013, 09:04:29 AM
Joo vill keep zees guyz in za kurreckt jooneeform!!!

( I do get #9 though....get theses guys in single color uniforms and on a field of the same color (i.e. Boise State) and it is hard to find them
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: JasonTX on February 17, 2013, 04:29:40 PM
Joo vill keep zees guyz in za kurreckt jooneeform!!!

( I do get #9 though....get theses guys in single color uniforms and on a field of the same color (i.e. Boise State) and it is hard to find them
With our impaired vision we need all the help we can get.
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: VALJ on February 19, 2013, 09:32:33 AM
Speculating on the wording of the BBW rule

Think it will only be allowed if from the front and within the extended neutral zone?

So no more "restricted" and "unrestricted", maybe?  If so, I might be able to study NCAA blocking rules without feeling like my brain will explode...
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: justaLJ on February 19, 2013, 09:59:03 AM
Yes, with respect to Team A, gone are references to BBW being "illegal except...", restricted and unrestricted, and adjacent sidelienes.  It's a complete 180 from previous changes.  Far from getting BBW out of the game, this change actually expands it compared to last year.

Looks like the service academies and the pure option teams are still in business! 

From proposed rule change doc:

Blocking Below The Waist (Rule 9-1-6)
Changes in bold:
1.  Team A prior to a change of possession:
Consider a zone seven yards on each side of the ball extending five yards beyond the neutral zone and back to Team A’s end line.
(a) Team A players who are on the line of scrimmage completely within this zone and backs who are stationary completely within the tackle box at the snap may legally block below the waist inside this zone until the ball has left the zone.

(b) Players not covered in a (above) while the ball is still in the zone, and all players after the ball has left the zone, are allowed to block below the waist if the force of the initial contact is from the front, but they may not block below the waist if the force of the initial contact is from the side or back.  “From the front” is understood to mean within the semi-circle forward of the player being blocked.

(c) Once the ball has left the zone a player may not block below the waist toward his own end line. 


2. Team B prior to a change of possession
(a) Other than in paragraphs b and c below, Team B players may block below the waist only within the area defined by lines parallel to the goal line five yards beyond and behind the neutral zone extended to the sidelines.  Blocking below the waist by players of Team B outside this area is illegal.

(b) Team B players may not block below the waist against an opponent who is in position to receive a backward pass.

(c)  Team B players may not block below the waist against an eligible Team A pass receiver beyond the neutral zone unless attempting to get to the ball or ball carrier.  This prohibition ends when a legal forward pass is no longer possible by rule.

3. Kicks
During a down in which there is a free kick or a scrimmage kick, blocking below the waist by any player is illegal except against the ball carrier.

4. Change of possession
After any change of possession, blocking below the waist by any player is illegal except against the ball carrier.
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: NVFOA_Ump on February 19, 2013, 10:26:56 AM
Am I missing something here or does the "new rule" now make the WR crackback BBW legal as long as it's from the front (or more correctly stated within in the new "semicircle")?
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: TXMike on February 19, 2013, 11:27:57 AM
Yes, with respect to Team A, gone are references to BBW being "illegal except...", restricted and unrestricted, and adjacent sidelienes.  It's a complete 180 from previous changes.  Far from getting BBW out of the game, this change actually expands it compared to last year.

Do you have the proposed wording for the other changes?
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: younggun on February 19, 2013, 11:40:12 AM
I just want to make sure I am understanding. Now you can block in any dierection you want (North, South, toward any sideline) as long as the contact on the person being blocked is in the front? And when the ball leaves the zone. NO ONE on the field can BBW?
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: justaLJ on February 19, 2013, 11:44:43 AM
Ask and ye shall receive.  Not sure how to attach a doc, so here's the cut & paste:

NCAA FOOTBALL RULES COMMITTEE
2013 Proposed Rule Changes
These changes were approved by the Committee on February 13, 2013.  They do not become final until approved by the Playing Rules Oversight Panel (PROP), which meets in early March.

1.Targeting with Crown of Helmet (Rules 9-1-3)/Targeting to Head/Neck Area of a Defenseless player (Rule 9-1-4).
No change to the statements of the fouls. 
Changes to the penalty statements in bold:
PENALTY—15 yards.  For dead-ball fouls, 15 yards from the succeeding spot.  Automatic first down for fouls by Team B if not in conflict with other rules.  For fouls in the first half: Disqualification for the remainder of the game.  For fouls in the second half: Disqualification for the remainder of the game and the first half of the next game.  If the foul occurs in the second half of the last game of the season, players with remaining eligibility shall serve the suspension during the first game of the following season.  The disqualification is subject to review by Instant Replay.   

2.Blocking Below The Waist (Rule 9-1-6)
Changes in bold:
1.  Team A prior to a change of possession:
Consider a zone seven yards on each side of the ball extending five yards beyond the neutral zone and back to Team A’s end line.
(a) Team A players who are on the line of scrimmage completely within this zone and backs who are stationary completely within the tackle box at the snap may legally block below the waist inside this zone until the ball has left the zone.

(b) Players not covered in a (above) while the ball is still in the zone, and all players after the ball has left the zone, are allowed to block below the waist if the force of the initial contact is from the front, but they may not block below the waist if the force of the initial contact is from the side or back.  “From the front” is understood to mean within the semi-circle forward of the player being blocked.

(c) Once the ball has left the zone a player may not block below the waist toward his own end line.
 

2. Team B prior to a change of possession
(a) Other than in paragraphs b and c below, Team B players may block below the waist only within the area defined by lines parallel to the goal line five yards beyond and behind the neutral zone extended to the sidelines.  Blocking below the waist by players of Team B outside this area is illegal.

(b) Team B players may not block below the waist against an opponent who is in position to receive a backward pass.

(c)  Team B players may not block below the waist against an eligible Team A pass receiver beyond the neutral zone unless attempting to get to the ball or ball carrier.  This prohibition ends when a legal forward pass is no longer possible by rule.

3. Kicks
During a down in which there is a free kick or a scrimmage kick, blocking below the waist by any player is illegal except against the ball carrier.

4. Change of possession
After any change of possession, blocking below the waist by any player is illegal except against the ball carrier.
   

3.  10-second Runoff for Injury Timeout Late in the Half  (Rule 3-3-5-f) 
Add new paragraph f
f.  If the player injury is the only reason for stopping the clock with less than one minute in the half, the opponent has the option of a 10-second runoff.  The play clock will be set to 25 seconds.  If there is a 10-second runoff the game clock will start on the referee’s signal.  If there is no 10-second runoff the game clock will start on the snap.  The 10-second runoff may be avoided by a charged team timeout if available.  There is no option of a 10-second runoff if there are injuries to opposing players.
   

4.  Minimum Time for a Play After Spiking the Ball (Rule 3-2)
New Article 5 (Minimum Time)
Article 5
If the game clock is stopped with three or more seconds remaining in the quarter and will start on the referee’s signal, the offense may reasonably expect to throw the ball directly to the ground (Rule 7-3-2-e) and have enough time for another play.  With two seconds or one second on the game clock there is enough time for only one play.
   

5.  Assisting The Ball Carrier (Rule 9-3-2-b)
New language deletes the words “push” and “or charge into.”
b.  The ball carrier shall not grasp a teammate; and no other player of his team shall grasp, pull, push or lift or charge into him to assist him in forward progress.
   

6.  Expand Definition of Unsportsmanlike Conduct (Rule 9-2-1)
Add a new paragraph, 9-2-1-a-1-(j)
(j) Dead-ball contact fouls such as pushing, shoving, striking, etc. that are not part of the game action.   

7.  Uniform Numbers (Rule 1-4-2)
Paragraph 1-4-2-d  is changed to read:
d.  When a player enters the game after changing his jersey number, he must report to the referee, who then informs the opposing head coach and announces the change.  Such a player who enters the game without reporting commits a foul for unsportsmanlike conduct.
New paragraph 1-4-2-e:
e.  Two players playing the same position may not wear the same number during the game.   

8.  Jersey Numerals (Rule 1-4-4-c-3)
Change in bold:
3. Numerals.  The jersey must have clearly visible, permanent Arabic numerals measuring at least 8 and 10 inches in height front and back, respectively, of one solid color which itself is clearly in distinct contrast with the color of the jersey, irrespective of any border around the number.   (Remaining language remains unchanged.)
   

9.  Uniform and field colors must contrast (Rule 1-4-4)
Add a new paragraph j:
j.  Uniform and field colors. Either the color of the uniform pants or the color of the body of the jersey must clearly contrast with the color of the surface of the field of play.   

10. Helmet Off: Timeout Allows Player to Remain in the Game (Rule 3-3-9-a)
Add sentence to paragraph a:
a.  If a player’s helmet comes completely off through play, other than as the direct result of a foul by an opponent, the player must leave the game for the next down.  The game clock will stop at the end of the down.  The player may remain in the game if his team is granted a charged timeout.   

11.  Pylon Markings (Rule 1-2-6)
Add to Article 6, Pylons:
One manufacturer’s logo or trademark is permitted on each pylon.  Institutional and conference logos are allowed.
   
12.  Operate the chain and down box on opposite sides of the field in each half (Rule 1-2-7)
Change in bold:
The official line-to-gain (yardage chain) and down indicators shall be operated approximately six feet outside the sideline, on the press box side during the first half and opposite the press box in the second half, except in stadiums where the total playing enclosure does not permit.   

13.  Allow Wireless Communication for Officiating Crew (Rule 1-4-13)
Add exception to Rule 1-4-13:
Exception: A protected wireless communication system open only to the officiating crew and conference officiating observer is allowed.    

V. INSTANT REPLAY
14.  Clock Adjustment at the End of a Quarter (Rule 12-3-5-c)
Change in bold:
c. Clock adjustment at the end of either half any quarter.
   If at the end of any quarter a half, either during a down…. (Remaining language remains unchanged.)
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: TXMike on February 19, 2013, 11:50:09 AM
I admit I am just a dumb Texan but I ain't getting it? ? ? ?

If a WR comes crashing in from the outside, he can block low against the LB who has turned and is essentially facing the blocker since that block is "from the front"  Are you kidding me?!!?!?!

Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: Osric Pureheart on February 19, 2013, 12:02:25 PM
6.  Expand Definition of Unsportsmanlike Conduct (Rule 9-2-1)
Add a new paragraph, 9-2-1-a-1-(j)
(j) Dead-ball contact fouls such as pushing, shoving, striking, etc. that are not part of the game action.   

Hypothetical time.

As the ball is becoming dead, A60 charges towards B40, who is obviously out of the play, and after the ball is dead he contacts B40 with a shoulder to the chest.  B40 gets up and pushes A60 hard in the chest.  The officials call a foul on both players.  Personal foul each; or just for A60, and USC for B40?

If USC for B40: five minutes later, exactly the same thing happens between the same players.  Is B40 now disqualified for two unsportsmanlike fouls?
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: JasonTX on February 19, 2013, 12:08:00 PM
I'm more confused now than what I was with last years changes to the BBW rules.   ???
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: younggun on February 19, 2013, 12:18:02 PM
In the zone you can BBW in any way until ball leaves, when it leaves only from the front. Everybody else from the front of the player you are blocking. Still cant BBW toward own GL beyond NZ even if from front. Does that sum it up? or did I miss something. I just want to make sure I am understanding.

Also so the :03 Rule is only if the game clock is stopped... so there is not a judgement factor if the clock is running and we have to make a determination if the snap was at :04 :03 or :02.
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: Hawkeye on February 19, 2013, 12:35:05 PM
Well it seems to have achieved its goal of making it easier to officiate.  I just wish RR would redefine the Tackle box as the back unrestricted zone from the 2012 changes,

i.e. I would like: The Tackle Box is the rectangular area enclosed by the neutral zone, the two lines parallel to the sidelines either five yards from the snapper or the outside of the frame of the body of the second lineman from the snapper in each direction, whichever is closer to the snapper, and Team A's end line.

Although the definition is rather hard to write, an accompanying diagram for both situations would clear up the intent.

If he doesn't make this editorial change, then we'll be having the same argument as 2011 with regard to the backs who are inside the tackle box with respect to this new rule.
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: VA-Ump on February 19, 2013, 12:36:15 PM
  “From the front” is understood to mean within the semi-circle forward of the player being blocked.

On its face, I think this is the confusing part... does it matter the direction the B player is facing?  Is there an acceptable angle +/- 90o .  Surely they have thought this through and have more clarification, for them to be doing an about face from lasty year.
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: TXMike on February 19, 2013, 12:58:54 PM
"The front" must be defined with some relationship to the goal the player is attacking otherwise the low "crackback"is good to go if it is in "the front" of the defender who is facing the sideline.  By making it relative to the goal he is attacking, the WR would have to get between the defender and the goal the defender is attacking and then block N-S. As for how much of an angle off that N-S line is going to be permissible.......
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: dvasques on February 19, 2013, 01:06:15 PM
So... No more green jersey and pants
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: ajv on February 19, 2013, 01:34:15 PM
Do we think the original BBW sentence "There shall be no blocking below the waist (other than against the ball carrier) except as allowed below." is still around?

Otherwise, it doesn't appear that B can block the ball carrier as a tackle (e.g from the side). Or would that be picked up by the clip rule or the trip rule) where they can do that?

Of course, as always, I'm worried that "ball carrier" is used in this rule rather than "runner" (as in the clip or trip rule).
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: Kalle on February 19, 2013, 03:31:52 PM
Hypothetical time.

As the ball is becoming dead, A60 charges towards B40, who is obviously out of the play, and after the ball is dead he contacts B40 with a shoulder to the chest.  B40 gets up and pushes A60 hard in the chest.  The officials call a foul on both players.  Personal foul each; or just for A60, and USC for B40?

If USC for B40: five minutes later, exactly the same thing happens between the same players.  Is B40 now disqualified for two unsportsmanlike fouls?

I'll choose c) USC on both. Both fouls happen after the ball became dead and neither was part of game action. If the same thing happens five minutes later, both are disqualified.
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: Hursk on February 19, 2013, 04:48:07 PM
"The front" must be defined with some relationship to the goal the player is attacking otherwise the low "crackback"is good to go if it is in "the front" of the defender who is facing the sideline.  By making it relative to the goal he is attacking, the WR would have to get between the defender and the goal the defender is attacking and then block N-S. As for how much of an angle off that N-S line is going to be permissible.......
First of all, thanks to all you guys who keep this board interesting and accurate...haven't posted in months, but I've been learning from all of you.
As to Mike's point, I think that he's probably going to be proved right on the orientation of the "semicircle", but it seems to me that the low crackback is still good to go... picturing a toss sweep and B pursuing on the 50 toward the sideline, wideout A could still block B low back toward the ball so long as A is coming from the A49 1/2; I don't see any N-S req't; seems like "WNW" is fine;
And even if the "semicircle forward" is oriented around the pursuing B player's shoulders, for example, wideout A could legally block low if A was coming from no deeper than the 50 (since he can't block toward his own endline).
Seems like all of the adjacent sideline business is gone... and that semicircle is 180 degrees.  Am I missing something?
But I'm sure we'll hear more...
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: FLBJ on February 20, 2013, 08:59:34 AM
As with everyone else, this is pure conjecture but...my original understanding of a 'crackback' block (which, as we know, doesn't exist in the rules) was a low block at the side against someone inside of the original player. This was (and still is) a dangerous block because a) the knee does not normally move this way and more importantly, b) the player may be focused on the runner and not the blocker so he has no way to protect his knees.

Now, if I read correctly, it must be from the front. Some wording, which does not appear to have made it into this rule prop, said 'clearly facing' so as to suggest the BLOCKEE had every opportunity to see the block coming. IF a linebacker is moving laterally the likelihood he will turn so he is COMPLETELY facing the wideout and at risk for being LEGALLY blocked low is, IMHO, rather low.

Thus, I don't think low blocks back toward the ball will be very prominent. If it's not clearly from the front, I think it will draw a foul and be supported. If it is from the front, the guy should have protected himself.

Just my 2 Lincolns.
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: justaLJ on February 20, 2013, 10:23:23 AM
If it's not clearly from the front, I think it will draw a foul and be supported. If it is from the front, the guy should have protected himself.

Agree.  It seems the intent of the proposed BBW change is to keep legal those low blocks where a player can see it coming.  Taking out the north-south, adjacent sideline, and motion exception stuff does simplify things greatly.  Practically speaking on the field, it's like pornography -- we will know it when we see it.
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: Hursk on February 20, 2013, 12:33:10 PM
Don't disagree in spirit, but my experience is that the linebacker/def end will be facing A's backfield and focusing on the runner who is trying to make the corner, the B player will be running "forward" on an angle toward the sideline to keep A from making the corner; thus B won't be looking at the wideout coming to block him low;
Of course, there is nothing to prevent that unless you prevent the wideout from blocking low altogether (in this fashion) like we had last year.
But it will certainly be easier to officiate, whatever the ultimate wording.  But low blocks by the wideout are back!
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: dvasques on February 20, 2013, 01:00:38 PM
What I don't like about this proposition is to allow BBW by anyone on the field after the ball has left the zone as long as it's from the front.

My proposition would be to have only item (a) on the rule and forbid it altogether once the ball has left the zone described.

But that would take out the small blocker
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: Rulesman on February 20, 2013, 02:23:07 PM
My proposition would be to have only item (a) on the rule and forbid it altogether once the ball has left the zone described.

But that would take out the small blocker
...and that's EXACTLY why your proposition will not pass given the current makeup of the committee.
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: dvasques on February 20, 2013, 05:44:58 PM
Guys, still on the BBW thing but on kicking downs that I got in doubt about something... The rule states
3. Kicks
During a down in which there is a free kick or a scrimmage kick, blocking below the waist by any player is illegal except against the ball carrier.

Does that mean that while the kick hasn't been made, the linemen can BBW with no foul?
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: TXMike on February 20, 2013, 06:06:06 PM
No, it means (and I know this is hard to believe) that dutring any down that includes a legal kick, there can be no blocking below the waist by either team from the time the ball is live until it becomes dead. 

Used to be only the offense was this restricted on scrimmage kick downs but the defense has also been so restricted for a few years now.  They have no idea whether a kick will be made or not but they are still restricted.
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: dvasques on February 20, 2013, 06:38:34 PM
insane... why not restrict in obvious scrimmage kick situations or scrimmage kick formation?
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: TXMike on February 20, 2013, 07:12:46 PM
wellll.......that WAS part of the rule in days gone by.
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: dvasques on February 20, 2013, 08:10:32 PM
good thing I'm not under NCAA rules
 ;D
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: TxSkyBolt on February 20, 2013, 08:37:35 PM
Looks like the service academies and the pure option teams are still in business! 



Of course they are, AF Head Coach Troy Calhoun is the rules committee chair. FlAg1

Best regards,

Brad
Title: Re: 1st Look at Rule Changes
Post by: Aussie-Zebra on March 03, 2013, 10:43:41 AM
ESPNU College Football
Ivan Maisel talks to Troy Calhoun about the changes made by the NCAA Football Rules Committee including the new rule on targeting blows to the head.

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=8995493

Interesting insight on the 8th official & BBW