Crew Signals

[Badger1]

Just wondering with the change in Rule 7-2-5a (redefined requirements for a legal scrimmage formation) if there is any need for the Referee to use the recommended crew communication signal of the fist extended straight out with elbow not bent and the thumb up as we have always done in the past to indicate 11 players in the game as it is now legal on offense to have less?  I can see the Back Judge using that signal to count the defense especially when there is a late substitution before the snap.

[CalhounLJ]

It’s always been legal to play with less than 11. We used that signal to indicate 11 in case a late sub ran on. We would know instantly he was #12. I would think the signal is still beneficial in that regard.


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[Magician]

That signal is still beneficial because the R and U need to check off with each other that they both have 11. The fact the wings used it to help determine 7 linemen was ancillary (we jokingly called it eavesdropping). The BJ and LJ should be doing the same thing when counting the defense (or deep officials if working 6 or 7-man mechanics).

[TampaSteve]

it seems reasonable to maintain the signal for R & U. but instead of "I got 11" it would/should be re-defined as "I got 11 or less".
Then R & L merely they got 4 or less and no one is covered, etc.

[CalhounLJ]

I’m missing the connection between the new rule and the idea of playing with less than 11. Nothing about that has changed has it? We could play with 10 or 9 or 8 with the old rule. In the past if we had less than 11 we just put a hand to the heart to let everybody know if they subbed late they still wouldn’t have too many. TBH in 27 years of officiating I’ve never encountered a team snapping with less than 9. As long as there were 7 on the line we didn’t care. Now, as long as we have 5 on the line we still don’t care.


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[KWH]

I’m missing the connection between the new rule and the idea of playing with less than 11. Nothing about that has changed has it? We could play with 10 or 9 or 8 with the old rule. In the past if we had less than 11 we just put a hand to the heart to let everybody know if they subbed late they still wouldn’t have too many. TBH in 27 years of officiating I’ve never encountered a team snapping with less than 9. As long as there were 7 on the line we didn’t care. Now, as long as we have 5 on the line we still don’t care.


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You are correct.
After all the finger pointing, shouting, gun shots and bickering the only real change was the requirement to have 7 Team A players on the LOS has been removed.

You can legally snap the football with 5 players!
   *   All 5 players must be numbered 50-79.
   *   All 5 players must be on the LOS.
   *   The snap must touch the ground in the backfield before it may be recovered and advanced by one of the jumbos.

While the wording differs slightly, the intent of and the interpretation of the NCAA Rule and the NFHS rule are now identical.

[Magician]

it seems reasonable to maintain the signal for R & U. but instead of "I got 11" it would/should be re-defined as "I got 11 or less".
Then R & L merely they got 4 or less and no one is covered, etc.

I still want to distinguish 11 from 10 or fewer with my R for the substitution situation Calhoun mentions and just to confirm my count is right. This signal wasn't FOR the wings to verify the correct number of lineman. It was for the R and U to verify they have a count. The wings just got to use it to help them. Nothing changes there at all.

[NVFOA_Ump]

I still want to distinguish 11 from 10 or fewer with my R for the substitution situation Calhoun mentions and just to confirm my count is right. This signal wasn't FOR the wings to verify the correct number of lineman. It was for the R and U to verify they have a count. The wings just got to use it to help them. Nothing changes there at all.

I agree.  When I'm R or U we use the punch for 11 and a quick 10 fingers out / palms on the chest to indicate 10 or less.  The difference is important in my opinion so we're on notice that there may well be a late incoming substitution.