Free Kick Play

[Legacy Zebra]

Free kick @ A-35, :30 left in Q4, neither team has any timeouts left, Team A trails 16-14.

A11’s untouched onside kick is at the A-48 when A22 bats the ball to prevent B99 from recovering the kick. The ball goes backward and out of bounds at the A-45.

[dammitbobby]

1)  Illegal touching by A, (violation, not foul, so beanbag, not flag) + illegal kick (flag)

2)  B can choose to have A rekick (a really bad idea in this scenario) or take the ball at the spot of the touching (A48) + 5 yards (B47). 

3)  No runoff because clock would have stopped regardless of who had possession at the end of the kick.

4) 1/10 B's ball, game clock on snap, play clock 25.

[Legacy Zebra]

1) There is no illegal touching here. Kicked from A-35, batted at the A-48. And the batting is legal because it was backward.

2) Even if the touching was illegal, that is not a valid enforcement spot.

3) There’s no change of team possession during the down, so who will next put the ball in play has no bearing on any potential runoff.

[TxBJ]

Free kick out of bounds. B takes over 5 yards in advance of the OOB spot. Clock on the snap.

[dammitbobby]

Yeah I was thinking TASO not NCAA.

[ElvisLives]

Yeah I was thinking TASO not NCAA.

What? TASO serves the UIL, TAPPS, and some other private secondary school systems in the State of Texas, ALL of whom follow NCAA rules, with certain 'exceptions.' None of those exceptions have anything to do with illegal touching, or batting of the ball. So, what were you thinking?

[bossman72]

Also to add - don't forget to start the clock when A bats the ball, as this is legal touching by A.

But the result of the play is a KOB foul.  B gets the ball 1/10 @ A40.  Clock should say something less than 0:30.

I see where you might be going with this question and, no, I don't think this is a 10 sec runoff even though this is technically a foul that causes the clock to stop.  Although, dumber things do qualify for the runoff, so I wouldn't be surprised if this would be correct.  Would love to see an AR or interp before we call it.

[Clear Lake ref]

What? TASO serves the UIL, TAPPS, and some other private secondary school systems in the State of Texas, ALL of whom follow NCAA rules, with certain 'exceptions.' None of those exceptions have anything to do with illegal touching, or batting of the ball. So, what were you thinking?

That the kickoff is at the 40. So didn’t go 10 yards in this scenario.

[dammitbobby]

Clear Lake ref is correct as to what I meant.

[ElvisLives]

Using the presented scenario:
Legacy mentioned it, but I can see some folks not catching the "drift."
The option of penalizing 5 yards for the KOB foul to the spot where the ball belongs to Team B means exactly that, and only that. The spot where the dead-ball belongs to team B, in this example, is the out-of-bounds spot. So, Team B can have the 5 yard penalty enforced from that spot (A-45), taking the ball to the A-40, 1st down for Team B. There are no other situations in which the 5-yard penalty may be 'added' to some other spot.
The other penalty options are:
-Team B may have the 5-yard penalty enforced at the previous spot (A-35), and the kickoff repeated from the A-30
-Team B may take the ball, 1/10, thirty (30) yards from the previous spot (A-35), 1/10, B-35.
-Team B may decline the penalty and take the ball at the dead-ball spot (A-45), 1/10.
 
A no brainer (except in some unusual time-critical situations). B, 1/10, A-40.

To modify the situation a bit, let's say the ball was batted by A22 at the A-44. Then the batting would also be illegal touching. Team B would have yet another option, i.e., to take the ball at the spot of the illegal touching A-44). But, if they take the ball at the spot of illegal touching, the 5-yard KOB penalty may NOT also be enforced. (I see that mistake made  by some inexperienced TASO crews. They add 5 yards to the illegal touching spot. WRONG!) In this situation, Team B would still take the 5-yard penalty from the spot where the dead-ball belonged to them, to get 1/10, B-40.

[dammitbobby]

That makes sense to me.  My error was in determining where the ball was kicked from initially. (NCAA vs high school).  In the original scenario, that would change the outcome.

  I think I would have gotten it right if not for that mistake (answered it correctly in my head at least, just not committed to typing it out at the time.)

[ElvisLives]

That makes sense to me.  My error was in determining where the ball was kicked from initially. (NCAA vs high school).  In the original scenario, that would change the outcome.

  I think I would have gotten it right if not for that mistake (answered it correctly in my head at least, just not committed to typing it out at the time.)

Well, not exactly. In your response 2), you indicate to add 5 yards to the spot of illegal touching. Incorrect, unless the spot of illegal touching is also the dead-ball spot (not so, in this case).

[dammitbobby]

You're right, when thinking through it I assumed they were the same.