Author Topic: AR 9-1-5-I and Rule 3-5-3  (Read 4133 times)

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El Macman

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AR 9-1-5-I and Rule 3-5-3
« on: July 23, 2011, 04:07:11 PM »
In addition to the need to relocate AR 9-1-5-I to Interpretations Rule 3, it also needs to be edited to remove the reference to "Illegal Interference" (no longer exists, per se), and to remove the reference to a specific amount of time that B may have excess players on the field before the snap. Illegal Participation (previously under "Illegal Interference") has been eliminated. Rule 3-5-3 was added to simply make the snap "imminent" (or just occurring) for B to commit a dead-ball Illegal Substitution foul for having too many players on the field (but, if  the excess players go unnoticed until the play is under way or completed, it is a live-ball foul; replay can get involved). Of course, 3-5-2-e (A rushing to the line while in the substitution process) trumps 3-5-3 until B has had reasonable opportunity to get players into position. This brings up an interesting play scenario:

3/5, 50. Both teams have the same 11 players on the field that participated in the previous down. As A breaks a huddle and moves quickly to their line, two A substitutes enter the game, and two A players begin departing. The U prevents the snapper from snapping the ball, while B responds immediately and sends in two substitutes, and one B player begins departing. All A players are positioned (no excess players on the field), and 12 B players are positioned when the R 'waves' the U off the ball. QB A11 begins calling signals, and the snap appears imminent (or has just begun) when the F, S , and B sound their whistles and drop their foul markers for a B illegal substitution foul for too many players on the field.

It could happen. 3-5-2-e trumped 3-5-3 long enough for B to get players into position. If the U has been waved off the ball, B's match-up opportunity is over, and they now fall lunder 3-5-3. If the snap is imminent, the deep guys should "blow and throw."

Another:
3/5, 50. Both teams have the same 11 players on the field that participated in the previous down. A does not huddle, moves to their line and QB A11 begins calling signals. B sends in one substitute, but no B player begins to depart. Two seconds later, as the snap appears imminent, the F, S , and B sound their whistles and drop their foul markers for a B illegal substitution foul for too many players on the field. 

It could happen. In 2011, technically, we could not have stopped this play from starting, and we would have had to rule this Illegal Participation, 15 yards, previous spot. For 2011, this (hopefully) will be a dead-ball Illegal Substitution foul for too many payers on the field. At worst, if we allow the play to run, we'll have a live-ball Illegal Substitution foul for too many payers on the field.

We still have the 3-second rule for departing players to begin departing (both teams). So, in the play immediatley above, if more than 3 seconds elapse before a B player begins departing, we have an Illegal Substitution foul for too many payers on the field, regardless if the snap is immiment or not. But, philosophically, I believe we'll give B all the chance in the world to 'get right' or call a T/O.

todd.gundlach@norwoodligh

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Re: AR 9-1-5-I and Rule 3-5-3
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2011, 06:02:03 PM »
What if it was 4th and long and B wanted 12 men or more on the field and didn't mind the 5 yd penalty?

El Macman

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Re: AR 9-1-5-I and Rule 3-5-3
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2011, 06:31:47 PM »
[quote IDIOT link=topic=8139.msg77652#msg77652 date=1311462123]
What if it was 4th and long and B wanted 12 men or more on the field and didn't mind the 5 yd penalty?
[/quote]

What if?