Author Topic: Illegal Substitution?  (Read 15047 times)

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eastARref

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Illegal Substitution?
« on: December 03, 2013, 04:53:32 PM »
A first and goal from the B 4yd line. B sends in a late sub. The replaced player leaves immediately and gets off of the field before the snap, but does not make it back to the team box (nowhere near) before the snap. Is this an illegal substitution? 

Offline Rulesman

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Re: Illegal Substitution?
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2013, 05:42:20 PM »
You are looking for trouble if you make this call. Let it go.
"Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good."
- Vince Lombardi

Offline James

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Re: Illegal Substitution?
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2013, 08:21:45 AM »
Would you flag him though if he goes out through the back of the EZ?
I have seen that a few times and flagged it, but don't really like doing it. Opinions?

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Illegal Substitution?
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2013, 08:31:42 AM »
You are looking for trouble if you make this call. Let it go.
Agreed, If you are more worried about if the replaced player has reached the edge of his team box while OOB than the goal to goal situation on the field , the trouble >:D may find you. Good  :thumbup rule of thumb : Once the replaced player passes the wing official stationed on the sidelines , the official's focus should be actions on the field.

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Illegal Substitution?
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2013, 08:33:32 AM »
Would you flag him though if he goes out through the back of the EZ?
I have seen that a few times and flagged it, but don't really like doing it. Opinions?
^flag the difference from the OP is that replaced player was going in the right direction - this one is not.

Offline Rulesman

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Re: Illegal Substitution?
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2013, 09:09:44 AM »
Would you flag him though if he goes out through the back of the EZ?
Yes. That's far different than the play described.
"Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good."
- Vince Lombardi

maven

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Re: Illegal Substitution?
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2013, 10:53:37 AM »
Yes, but too technical to flag.

Offline Rulesman

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Re: Illegal Substitution?
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2013, 11:14:36 AM »
Yes, but too technical to flag.
A replaced player leaving the field through the back of the end zone is too technical to flag? ???
"Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good."
- Vince Lombardi

maven

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Re: Illegal Substitution?
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2013, 12:44:07 PM »
A replaced player leaving the field through the back of the end zone is too technical to flag? ???

No, sorry, I was responding to the OP: replaced player OOB at the snap but not yet in the team box.

Offline Ump33

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Re: Illegal Substitution?
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2013, 07:15:22 AM »
A first and goal from the B 4yd line. B sends in a late sub. The replaced player leaves immediately and gets off of the field before the snap, but does not make it back to the team box (nowhere near) before the snap. Is this an illegal substitution?

No, this is not Illegal Subs ... 3-7-2 states the "replaced player" must go directly to his team box, it does not state he must be in the team box. Case Book 3.7.3B addresses the Original Post (leaving from the side) as well as the Modified Post (leaving from the back of the EZ).

3-7-2 . . . A player, replaced player or a substitute is required to leave the field at the side on which his team box is located and go directly to his team box.

3.7.3 SITUATION B: It is first and 10 on B’s 12-yard line and substitute B12 comes onto the field to replace B2 and communicates with him. Prior to the ball becoming live: (a) B2 leaves the field of play through the end zone and across B’s sideline without crossing the end line and continues toward his team box; or (b) B12, seeing that he will be unable to replace B2 before the ball is snapped, returns to his team box; or (c) B2, seeing that he will not be able to reach the sideline before the ball is snapped, leaves the field through the end zone and remains to observe the play; or (d) B12 becomes confused and withdraws through the end zone across the end line and goes around the field to return to B’s team box. RULING: In (a), the act is legal. In (b), (c) and (d), it is a non-player foul for illegal substitution. A player, replaced player or substitute is required to go directly to his team box. A substitute may not enter and withdraw in the same dead ball interval.

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Illegal Substitution?
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2013, 07:48:36 AM »
Good post, Ump33 tiphat: . The bottom line is the end line as crossing that draws a  ^flag . Remember, guys, that this is a non-player foul with succeeding spot enforcement.

Offline Curious

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Re: Illegal Substitution?
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2013, 03:31:10 PM »
Rule of thumb(?)..if he's behind you on the wing, let it go.  If you can take a couple steps forward to make that happen, do it!

eastARref

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Re: Illegal Substitution?
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2013, 08:58:08 AM »
Thanks for the replies! This is not something that our crew flagged.  It was something that came up in our post game discussions.  All of your input is appreciated!

Offline VALJ

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Re: Illegal Substitution?
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2013, 12:47:34 PM »
Rule of thumb(?)..if he's behind you on the wing, let it go.  If you can take a couple steps forward to make that happen, do it!

+1.  In fact, + about a billion..

Offline Rulesman

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Re: Illegal Substitution?
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2013, 05:44:27 PM »
+1.  In fact, + about a billion..
It's called common sense.
"Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good."
- Vince Lombardi

Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: Illegal Substitution?
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2013, 08:08:29 PM »
It's called common sense.
The unfortunate thing about common sense is that it isn't all that common.

Offline VALJ

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Re: Illegal Substitution?
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2013, 07:53:25 AM »
The unfortunate thing about common sense is that it isn't all that common.

+1.  In fact, + about a billion..

Offline Magician

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Re: Illegal Substitution?
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2013, 09:54:00 AM »
Rule of thumb(?)..if he's behind you on the wing, let it go.  If you can take a couple steps forward to make that happen, do it!

Unless you are the NFL and Bill Belichek is one of the coaches and this is reviewable.