Redding-Shaw Quiz Week 13

[ElvisLives]

A couple of trickier questions. My answers:

1. A, 4/13, A-3, snap, 40 and running.  A forward pass may be batted in any direction by any player eligible to touch the ball.  When A34 batted the ball, the batting does not change the status of the ball - it is still a ball loose from a forward pass.  So, when the ball strikes the ground, it is simply an incomplete forward pass.  The ball was dead, thereafter, so the action by A55 is meaningless. The play clock is 40 and runs after the ball is dead on the previous down, and the game clock starts on the snap.

2. A, F/K, A-30, F/K rules, 25.  When A22 returned to the field of play after having stepped out of bounds, he has committed a foul for an illegal return.  However, any action on/by A22 is otherwise legal.  So, when A22 recovers the ball, and the ball is beyond B's restraining line, the recovery is legal, and the ball belongs to Team A at the end of the down.  Since A legally recovered the ball, the 5-yard penalty for the illegal return can only be penalized at the previous spot, and the down repeated.  The play clock is 25 and starts on the Referee's signal.

3. A, 4/1, B-40, RFP, 25.  At the snap, Team A was no longer in a scrimmage kick formation, so they are required to have 5 lineman numbered 50-79, so they commit an illegal formation foul. Team B is offside at the snap. The fouls offset, and the down is repeated.  Assuming the BC was tackled inbounds, both clocks start on the Referee's signal.

4. A, 3/2,A-45, RFP, 25.  The action by B56 is a delay of game foul before the ball could be snapped, for making a move intended to cause a false start, 5-yard penalty.  The game clock was running, so, both clocks start on the Referee's signal.

5. A, 2/3, B-48, RFP, 40 and running.  The block is legal, because it is committed by a lineman within the tackle box at the snap.  By interpretation (see ARs), the tackle box is expanded one yard beyond the NZ for these types of blocks. Play simply continues.

6. A, 1/10, B-20, RFP, 25.  The tackle is legal, but the retaliation by A22 is a dead-ball UNS foul.  Since Team A made the line-to-gain, this is a foul between series, so the penalty is enforced at the succeeding spot, and the new line-to-gain is established after the penalty is enforced.  Both clocks start on the Referee's signal.

7. A, 3/15, A-35, RFP, 25.  Being 3rd down, it is not obvious that a kick will be attempted, so this is NOT a scrimmage kick formation.  This is an illegal formation foul by A, for not having 5 linemen numbered 50-79.  Five yards, previous spot, repeat the down.  Both clocks start on the Referee's signal.

8. B, 1/10, B-27, snap, 25.  The batting of the legally kicked ball by A88 in HORSE HOCKEY (I guess I must have forgotten the apostrophe between the B and s) Team B's end zone is a special case, and is NOT a foul, but it IS illegal touching.  If B declines the facemask foul and invokes the illegal touching privilege, they will put the ball in play at the B-20.  However, if they accept the 15-yard penalty, it is enforced from the end of the related run (B-12) = B-27, 1/10, which B will obviously accept.  The play clock is 25 and starts on the Referee's signal, and the game clock starts on the snap.

How do ya like me now?

[DallasLJ]

Disagree on No 7.  Just because it is 3rd down, you cannot assume no scrimmage kick will occur.  As I understand the Rule, you can only, by Rule, assume no kick on 1st and 2nd down.  The option for a "quick kick" is still live, so this is a legal formation.  I have Team A, 1/10 at the B45, clock stopped for first down, then running, and :40 second play clock.

[ElvisLives]

Disagree on No 7.  Just because it is 3rd down, you cannot assume no scrimmage kick will occur.  As I understand the Rule, you can only, by Rule, assume no kick on 1st and 2nd down.  The option for a "quick kick" is still live, so this is a legal formation.  I have Team A, 1/10 at the B45, clock stopped for first down, then running, and :40 second play clock.

I've been searching for an hour now, and just can't find that rule.  Please point to it for me.

Robert

[TxBJ]

There are A.R.'s that address this.  The first states that it is only obvious a kick might be attempted on 3rd or 4th down:

Approved Ruling 7-1-4-VII
At the B-45, Team A is in an alignment in which the snapper A88 is on the right end of the line. The linemen on his left are numbered 56, 63, 72, 22, 79, and 25. There are four players in the backfield. A44 is ten yards directly behind the snapper, and the other backs are to his left a few yards behind the line of scrimmage. No player is in position to hold for a place kick. After the snap, A44 completes a pass to snapper A88 for a touchdown. This happens on (a) first or second down; (b) third or fourth down. RULING: Because there are only four offensive linemen numbered in the 50-79 range, the legality of the play depends on whether Team A is in a scrimmage kick formation. One of the requirements for such a formation is that “it is obvious that a kick will be attempted.” (a) Illegal formation: on first or second down, a team is very unlikely to punt, so it is not obvious that a kick will be attempted. (b) Legal play: touchdown. On third or fourth down a team may be likely to kick. (Rule 2-16-10)

The next A.R. , however, shows that the formation in the quiz is not a scrimmage kick formation due to the alignment of the backs:

Approved Ruling 7-1-4-VIII
Team A lines up with A11 ten yards directly behind the snapper. The other three backs are split wide, all outside the tackle box. Only four Team A linemen have uniform numbers between 50 and 79. A11 receives the backward pass from the snapper with Team A in this formation. RULING: Live-ball foul. Illegal formation, not enough players numbered 50-79 on the line of scrimmage. Team A is not is a scrimmage kick formation, because in this alignment it is not obvious that a kick will be attempted. (Rule 2-16-10)

[ElvisLives]

Yeah, I knew about the AR’s, but those are not the “rule,” although they are certainly interpretations to be respected.  I was just trying to make the point that allowing exceptions to mandatory numbering on 3rd down ISN’T the ‘rule.’

3/3, B-40, 14:02, (1), no score.  Any coach that punts on this down ought to be fired on the spot.  How is this any different than 1st or 2nd down?  Not even in the wildest stretches of the imagination is it obvious a kick will be attempted in those circumstances.  To allow numbering exceptions on such a down is not at all what the Committee had in mind back in the 70’s when they made this rule.

Of course, the reason they don’t specify downs in the rule is because Team A may need to attempt a field goal on ANY down.  The rule should be that Exceptions are allowed on any down when Team A has a player in position to hold for a place kick, and a potential kicker in position at the snap, or on 4th down when there is a back at least 10 yards deep, and not more than two backs outside the tackle box at the snap.