Author Topic: NCCA Video Week 6  (Read 3307 times)

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Offline ElvisLives

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NCCA Video Week 6
« on: October 07, 2022, 11:31:27 AM »
Well, ain't this interesting.

Play 6 of this video has an interior lineman with an eligible number that drops back into the backfield and catches a forward pass. It isn't what the crew (incorrectly) rules that is interesting. Rather, it is the explanation of the correct ruling from Shaw that is curious. I totally agree with his ruling, and have wanted it to be this way. But what he says is in conflict with the direction that we got FROM HIM last year.
OK, so what the heck am I talking about. Last year (2021), in the pre-season video, we saw this same type of play, and were told to rule ING, rather than ITP, because it gave us the ability to invoke a LOD with the penalty. OK. If that is what you are directing, great. We'll hang our hats on that.
So, for 2022, they changed the rule to make ITP, by an originally ineligible player, to also include LOD. At the time, I wondered if this rule change now removes the directive to rule ING, when there are no other eligible receivers in the area. We never really heard anything, either way, but I had decided, in my mind, for myself, that I would rule ITP, even though the ING would, in most cases, result in a greater loss of yardage.
So, in watching/listening to this Play 6, Shaw makes reference to "...some technical referees that want to argue this is intentional grounding..."  Well, why is that, Steve? Because you told us to do that!

OK. So, bottom line is that, when an originally ineligible player intentionally touches the legally forward passed ball before it is touched by Team B or an official, that is ITP. Period. Not ING. Good. I am more than totally good with that. That is what I thought it should be all along, even last year (when we had it happen to us).
Just don't insult folks after they do what you told them to do.

Offline ilyazhito

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Re: NCCA Video Week 6
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2022, 01:27:57 PM »
I agree. It is stupid that Shaw is being condescending towards NCAA referees when they do what he told them to do. I would have said, "Last year, there was an interpretation that a legal forward pass touched by an originally ineligible receiver before B or an official touches the ball was intentional grounding. This was done to allow a loss of down to be assessed on that type of plays. In this video, the referee makes the correct ruling based on that interpretation. This year, this same play would be ruled as ITP." This way, referees who made the correct call last year are not thrown under the bus.

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: NCCA Video Week 6
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2022, 02:27:13 PM »
I agree. It is stupid that Shaw is being condescending towards NCAA referees when they do what he told them to do. I would have said, "Last year, there was an interpretation that a legal forward pass touched by an originally ineligible receiver before B or an official touches the ball was intentional grounding. This was done to allow a loss of down to be assessed on that type of plays. In this video, the referee makes the correct ruling based on that interpretation. This year, this same play would be ruled as ITP." This way, referees who made the correct call last year are not thrown under the bus.

Concur with your 'principle' on this.
Sadly, the actual ruling made by the crew in this 2022 play was incorrect. They ruled IDP (ineligible downfield). Replay stepped in and took them off of the IDP, because the player in question never went downfield until after he caught the pass. I don't know replay protocol, but, apparently Replay couldn't create an illegal touching foul, so, ultimately, no foul was called. I don't why they can take the crew off of the IDP, but couldn't create an ITP. I like replay, but I just don't get when they can get involved, and when they can't. That's why I didn't go to the booth when I came off the field.

Offline Imperial Stout

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Re: NCCA Video Week 6
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2022, 07:10:23 PM »
Rules editor Shaw needs to edit 12-8-e to make it match up with what he stated in the video:

Quote
Reviewable Fouls
ARTICLE 8. The following plays are reviewable and the replay official may
create a foul when there is no call by the on-field officials:
.
.
.
e. Illegal touching of a forward pass by an originally eligible receiver who has
gone out of bounds or touching of a forward pass by an originally ineligible
player
(Rules 12-3-2-b and 12-3-3-h).


If I try to read his mind, I assume he meant the touching of a forward pass by a player originally ineligible by number.  In the instant replay casebook, there is one ruling where a covered up TE goes downfield and catches a pass as being not reviewable.