Author Topic: Not new, but how about this...  (Read 8307 times)

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El Macman

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Not new, but how about this...
« on: July 16, 2011, 10:19:49 AM »
Snapper A55 and guard A66 swap positions with each other, as the QB is calling snap signals.

-What do you have (if anything)?

-More importantly, if you have something, what announcement do you make?

Offline JasonTX

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Re: Not new, but how about this...
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2011, 10:57:45 AM »
It depends on what they did.  Did the snapper establish himself by putting his hands at or below his knees?  If so, it is a false start if he moves to another position.

Offline Hawkeye

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Re: Not new, but how about this...
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2011, 11:34:28 AM »
I think the clue to what to call it is in the Penalty statement.  The penalty statement includes S20 (illegal shift).  If the snapper moves to a new position, someone must move into the snapper's position and therefore we have a dead ball illegal shift. Perhaps the announcement would be "Illegal shift, by rule, the snapper may not move to a new position, 5 yard penalty, 2nd down"

That is the only thing that is close to an illegal shift in 7-1-3.  But if you look at the Summary page, it lists S19 for all fouls in 7-1-3.  Perhaps you could use S19 with the above announcement. Or call it "Illegal Change of Position, by rule, the snapper may not move to a new position, 5 yard penalty, 2nd down"

Offline JasonTX

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Re: Not new, but how about this...
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2011, 11:55:35 AM »
I think the clue to what to call it is in the Penalty statement.  The penalty statement includes S20 (illegal shift).  If the snapper moves to a new position, someone must move into the snapper's position and therefore we have a dead ball illegal shift. Perhaps the announcement would be "Illegal shift, by rule, the snapper may not move to a new position, 5 yard penalty, 2nd down"

That is the only thing that is close to an illegal shift in 7-1-3.  But if you look at the Summary page, it lists S19 for all fouls in 7-1-3.  Perhaps you could use S19 with the above announcement. Or call it "Illegal Change of Position, by rule, the snapper may not move to a new position, 5 yard penalty, 2nd down"

7-1-2-b-2 says false start.

El Macman

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Re: Not new, but how about this...
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2011, 02:32:46 PM »
Yeah, technically, False Start it is. But, that is a terrible description for this foul - as unheard of as it might be.
Had that thrown at me during an 'on-field' exercise recently, and got the foul, but wasn't sure what to announce. I went with illegal formation, then, after the fact, got to studying to find out what I should have announced. I still don't think I'd announce false start. I think I'd go with, "Illegal position change, #55, offense. By rule, when a player establishes himself as the snapper, he may not move to another position. 5 yard penalty, 2nd down [or whatever it is]." I thought about adding , "But don't frickin' ask me why." But, then I thought better of that... :)
 

Offline zebra99

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Re: Not new, but how about this...
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2011, 02:51:11 AM »
Yeah, technically, False Start it is. But, that is a terrible description for this foul - as unheard of as it might be.
Had that thrown at me during an 'on-field' exercise recently, and got the foul, but wasn't sure what to announce. I went with illegal formation, then, after the fact, got to studying to find out what I should have announced. I still don't think I'd announce false start. I think I'd go with, "Illegal position change, #55, offense. By rule, when a player establishes himself as the snapper, he may not move to another position. 5 yard penalty, 2nd down [or whatever it is]." I thought about adding , "But don't frickin' ask me why." But, then I thought better of that... :)

Snapper illegally moves to another postion - by rule it's a FST so that's what I'd signal and announce.  I don't think anyone but us zebras care about why it's a FST, but more importantly if I went with anything longer, I'd get stuck trying to think of the correct verb...   :)

Actually, the defense usually reacts once the snapper gets off the ball, so it will look like a FST.  Now, for that bit about "simulates touching the ball", I'm giving the snapper every benefit of the doubt ... even if his hands are technically at or below his knees, unless he truly does something more that does "simulate touching the ball" I'm not calling him a snapper.

Not gonna trouble trouble.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2011, 02:55:56 AM by zebra99 »

El Macman

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Re: Not new, but how about this...
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2011, 07:14:46 AM »
I don't disagree, certainly not on the signal - that's simple enough  - just roll your arms. But we were (and always are) being told to use the mic effectively, and just saying "false start" alone isn't enough, I don't think. To the typical spectator and the pressbox/media, the term false start conjures something far different than the snapper moving to another position, so I think our superiors want us to give some brief but concise explanation. I could go with. "False start, #55, offense. By rule, when a  player establishes himself as the snapper, he may not move to another position. 5 yard penalty, second down."
But, it still just doesn't sound right. That's just me, I suppose.


Snapper illegally moves to another postion - by rule it's a FST so that's what I'd signal and announce.  I don't think anyone but us zebras care about why it's a FST, but more importantly if I went with anything longer, I'd get stuck trying to think of the correct verb...   :)

Actually, the defense usually reacts once the snapper gets off the ball, so it will look like a FST.  Now, for that bit about "simulates touching the ball", I'm giving the snapper every benefit of the doubt ... even if his hands are technically at or below his knees, unless he truly does something more that does "simulate touching the ball" I'm not calling him a snapper.

Not gonna trouble trouble.

Offline zebra99

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Re: Not new, but how about this...
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2011, 10:15:08 AM »
I don't disagree, certainly not on the signal - that's simple enough  - just roll your arms. But we were (and always are) being told to use the mic effectively, and just saying "false start" alone isn't enough, I don't think. To the typical spectator and the pressbox/media, the term false start conjures something far different than the snapper moving to another position, so I think our superiors want us to give some brief but concise explanation. I could go with. "False start, #55, offense. By rule, when a  player establishes himself as the snapper, he may not move to another position. 5 yard penalty, second down."
But, it still just doesn't sound right. That's just me, I suppose.

how about "False start, #55, the snapper changed positions, 5 yard penalty, second down."

El Macman

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Re: Not new, but how about this...
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2011, 01:02:00 PM »
 That would be perfect, if anyone had ever heard or seen this call before. But, since you'll be the first one making this announcement since the introduction of the field mic for referees, it just might need a little more explanation. Those hearing your proposed announcement would say, "So?"
But, it wouldn't be wrong, so it is probably as good as anything I've suggested.



eAt&
how about "False start, #55, the snapper changed positions, 5 yard penalty, second down."

Offline zebra99

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Re: Not new, but how about this...
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2011, 01:08:46 PM »
That would be perfect, if anyone had ever heard or seen this call before. But, since you'll be the first one making this announcement since the introduction of the field mic for referees, it just might need a little more explanation. Those hearing your proposed announcement would say, "So?"
But, it wouldn't be wrong, so it is probably as good as anything I've suggested.



eAt&

ha ha - I'm telling my crew not to make any of these calls until week 4 or 5 (despite the downgrades) after all you other Rs have educated everyone with your lengthy but perfect announcements!