Holding a forward pass?

[hear to learn]

Senior moment:

QB A12 drops back to pass in the pocket.  WR A80 is held by B22 before the pass is thrown.  QB A 12 throws a pass intended for WR A80, but

A) is tipped by the defensive behind the LOS and falls incomplete beyond the LOS
B) when thrown it hits A66 helmet

What are the rulings?

Does it matter in each situation whether the ball has to cross the LOS

[Kalle]

In both cases, assuming that A66 is behind the LOS, 10 yards from the previous spot, repeat the down. In both cases the forward pass has not crossed the neutral zone so there is no automatic first down for the B22 holding foul.

[dvasques]

if the pass had fallen incomplete beyon the NZ the holding fould (not interference) would have an automatic first down to it?

[Kalle]

if the pass had fallen incomplete beyon the NZ the holding fould (not interference) would have an automatic first down to it?

If the ball is not (first) touched behind the NZ, yes.

[dvasques]

9-3-4-e

damn, I need to study a lot more

[FabioBroncos]

Good catch! I also have to devour more and more the rules book...

Just for curiosity: what's the purpose of this rule? I mean, why was it created this way? I'm clueless about it and I admit for now it makes no sense to me.

[Kalle]

Which rule? Determining the status of the forward pass by the first touch? I would think that it is because then you don't have to worry about pass interference on a pass that's partially blocked by the rushing defenders, as the ball can then go pretty much anywhere.

[dvasques]

No Kalle, the one that says holding should be auto first down if the pass crosses the line untouched

[FabioBroncos]

Hey Kalle,

The rule I refereed is the 9-3-4-e mentioned by dvasques. I didn't get the point on why it includes an automatic 1st down... Just some curiosity on why the penalty was set this way.

[Kalle]

I'd think it includes the first down for the same reason DPI includes the first down - to encourage passing game and discourage defense from fouling on forward passes.

[dvasques]

If the ball is not (first) touched behind the NZ, yes.

wait... I'm messing thigs up in my mind

what matters here is if the foul happened before the pass is touched, either behind or beyond the NZ, right?

[Hawkeye]

wait... I'm messing thigs up in my mind

what matters here is if the foul happened before the pass is touched, either behind or beyond the NZ, right?

A foul for Defensive Holding will occur BEFORE the ball is in the air, after the ball is released, that same action is now DPI.

The penalty for Defensive Holding will include an automatic first down if 3 things happen: 1. The foul occurs beyond the NZ, 2. The fouls occurs against an eligible receiver and 3. The legal forward pass crosses the NZ

The last one is where a lot of officials get messed up because they see the pass physically travel beyond the NZ, but to know if the pass "crossed the NZ" by rule, we need to consult rule 2-19-3.  For the purpose of penalty enforcement (and other stuff), the pass is not deemed to have crossed the NZ if it is first touched behind the NZ even though the ball may physically travel beyond the NZ.