OK, Where did it go???

[TXMike]

Does anyone know where specifically in the rulebook it tells us the team which does not get the 1st choice of designating who will kick off or which side of the field their team will defend gets to make the 1st choice in the 2d half?   I see it in the 2008 book but not in the 2009 or later books.

[TxSkyBolt]

It's nowhere.

[dvasques]

so that means the loosing team on the toss does not have the coice on the second half? How is it to be done?

[FabioBroncos]

By rule now that's my interpretation, though I know it's wrong.

The current text says the only situation the teams can make other choices is if the coin/toss winner decides to postpone his call to the 2nd half.

Does anybody here have a link to the '08 NCAA rules book?

[Hawkeye]

2008:  3-1-1
First and Third Periods
ARTICLE 1. Each half shall start with a kickoff. Three minutes before the scheduled starting time, the referee shall toss a coin at midfield in the presence of not more than four field captains from each team and another game official, first designating the field captain of the visiting team to call the coin toss. Before the second half, captains will meet with the referee to select second half options.
  During the coin toss, each team shall remain in the area between the nineyard marks and its sideline or in the team area. The coin toss begins when the field captains leave the nine-yard marks and ends when the captains return to the nine-yard marks.
PENALTY—Five yards from the succeeding spot [S19].
a. The winner of the toss shall choose one of the following options for the first or second half at the beginning of the half selected:
   1. To designate which team shall kick off.
   2. To designate which goal line his team shall defend.
b. The loser shall choose one of the above options for the half the winner of the toss did not select.
c. The team not having the choice of options for a half shall exercise the option not chosen by the opponent.
d. If the winner of the toss selects the second-half option, the referee shall use [S10].

For 2009 and beyond: I submit that it is still there, although not explicitly.  If the team winning the toss does not choose option 3, then they are implicitly giving the second half option to the team who lost the toss.

[dvasques]

I kinda agree with you Hawkeye, problem is if you don't have a previous book in which is was explicit and everything was well explained, then what's implicit becomes non-existent. And that's how it's working down here. It doesn't say anywhere that the team loosing team on the coin toss gets the option for the second half. So when teams and coaches that had a mistaken idea of how the coin toss should work can't be convinced that they are wrong because there is nothing written

[NVFOA_Ump]

FYI - Attached is the 2008 and 2009 versions side by side.  While the language is slightly different in the current version (2013-1014 book), the "missing language" (The loser shall choose one of the above options for the half the winner of the toss did not select.) has not returned.  While we can agree that the process for making the selections in the 2nd half is fairly obvious, I'll bet that the missing language was unintentionally removed.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[dvasques]

FYI - Attached is the 2008 and 2009 versions side by side.  While the language is slightly different in the current version (2013-1014 book), the "missing language" (The loser shall choose one of the above options for the half the winner of the toss did not select.) has not returned.  While we can agree that the process for making the selections in the 2nd half is fairly obvious, I'll bet that the missing language was unintentionally removed.

Fairly obvious if you already knew how it was. Down here, fairly obvious is A won, chose to kick. Then automatically B will kick on second half for a "fair" chance for both

[TXMike]

Huge props to Mr Vasques for finding this oversight. It has been forwarded to Dr Redding and you should expect to see it as an editorial change in the next rulebook.

[dvasques]

Fabio is the one who pointed out the absence. I was like you... For me it was obvious and implicit

[TXMike]

I doubt he found it

[dvasques]

don't underestimate those muscles
 

[FabioBroncos]

ahahahaha I'd rather to look at a hot woman pic   

[clearwall]

Kind of along these lines, a topic came up last night in a district meeting. DD said that he had a game where at the coin flip, the wind was blowing 25 mph from the S. The winning coach chose to play the wind and elected to go INTO the wind for the 1Q. About 5 mins later, before kickoff, the wind had changed and was now 15-20 out of the N. The DD said he allowed the winning coach to change his mind abouti the direction he wanted to kick. I dont know that such a thing is allowed. Once you decide, you decide, right?

[TXMike]

Don't go looking for boogers. Game has not started yet. Why not let him change mind?

[clearwall]

Don't go looking for boogers. Game has not started yet. Why not let him change mind?

I donno, I just see it as "that's your decision, you made it."

How many times have we had "Ok, red wins the toss. What do you want?"

"We want to KICK!"

"You want to Defer?"


"Naw, we wanna KICK!"

"Are you sure you want to KICK???"

"Yeah, we wanna KICK!"

"Okaaay...Red wins the toss and has elected to kick"

2nd Half:
"Ok, red coach, which way do you want to kick?"
"You mean receive?"
"No, you chose KICK to start the game. You dont get a choice this half, Blue chose to receive."

[TXMike]

1 - there is no rule that says he cannot change his mind after he has given you his option.   Use some common sense and let him do it

2 - in your dialogue I did not see the official make the comment "coach if you chose to kick now you know it means your opponent may choose to receive in 2d half so you will not be able to do so".  Make sure he is fully informed before letting him make the stupid mistake

[dvasques]

2 - in your dialogue I did not see the official make the comment "coach if you chose to kick now you know it means your opponent may choose to receive in 2d half so you will not be able to do so".  Make sure he is fully informed before letting him make the stupid mistake
[/quote]

I thought this was seen and "non ethical" or something... I'd ask the team twice if they're sure of their choice and that's that.
But in the back of my mind, I'd always thought it would be a good idea to be more explicit about the mistake they are about to make

[TXMike]

I don't see it as unethical.  I see it as preventive officiating.  We all know there is confusion over this at times and doing whatever we can to limit that seems like a good thing to me

[FLbackjudge]

I'm with Mike; it's not unethical at all, just good preventative  officiating.  In fact, to avoid just such a situation, in most of the Division I conferences in which I worked between 1982 and 2012, we asked each coach prior to the game what his choice will be if he wins the toss.  The last thing we want is to begin the game or the second half with an unnecessary controversy.

[Rulesman]

I'm with Mike; it's not unethical at all, just good preventative  officiating.  In fact, to avoid just such a situation, in most of the Division I conferences in which I worked between 1982 and 2012, we asked each coach prior to the game what his choice will be if he wins the toss.  The last thing we want is to begin the game or the second half with an unnecessary controversy.

To minimize the risk to a train wreck, asking the coach prior to the game should be SOP at most levels of play. Period. Don't go looking for trouble. There will be plenty of it that will find you!