Mass. HS Exception ? Trick play

[TXMike]

Is there an exception in Mass. HS rules that makes this play legal?  This was one of the state championship games played recently


http://youtu.be/R8SIfGjzBCg

[Etref]

Wonder what he was saying?

If he says nothing he is just in motion,illegally!

[Hawkeye]

Is there an exception in Mass. HS rules that makes this play legal?  This was one of the state championship games played recently


http://youtu.be/R8SIfGjzBCg

No.

[Legacy Zebra]

Why would his motion be illegal?

[Etref]

Why would his motion be illegal?

He is under center and not on the line or in the backfield. If he stepped away and stopped then he could go in motion

[TXMike]

He was in a position to receive a hand-to-hand snap so that made him a back

[dvasques]

The motion is legal but the act deems the snap not imminent so not a legal play

[psv]

The motion is legal (right?), the centers hand is on the ball and the rest of the offense is lined up and  there IS someone back there to receive the snap, so I would say the snap is imminent. 

It is douchy, but what rules are actually being broken here.  Are we just saying that this just falls under Unfair Acts/Tactics, 9-2-2 and 9-2-3?

[DallasLJ]

The motion is legal (right?), the centers hand is on the ball and the rest of the offense is lined up and  there IS someone back there to receive the snap, so I would say the snap is imminent. 

It is douchy, but what rules are actually being broken here.  Are we just saying that this just falls under Unfair Acts/Tactics, 9-2-2 and 9-2-3?

  Yes. 

[psv]

Can we get this added then:

"All trick plays are illegal".  Lets say, 9-2-4 or -5 or something.

That would sure make our lives easier.  We (as in, the officiating community) seem to miss these a lot.

[mwa]

a similar play was in a  memo from November 13, 2009 from  RR.  It seems like this in not considered a "football act."

Second and 10 at the A-45. Quarterback A12 is in a “shotgun” formation. All players are stopped for a full second when A12 turns (no false start) and begins to trot toward his sideline in apparent confusion about what play is to be called or whether the coach wants to request a timeout. He is moving parallel to his end line and is almost to his sideline when the ball is snapped to A45 who is five yards behind the snapper. A45 then completes a forward pass to A12 for a long gain.

RULING: Unsportsmanlike conduct for an unfair act to deceive the opponents. The referee may impose any penalty he deems reasonable. In this case the penalty is for a live-ball foul, 15 yards at the previous spot and the down is repeated. Second and 25 at the A-30. (9-2-3-c)

[Kalle]

Can we get this added then:

"All trick plays are illegal".  Lets say, 9-2-4 or -5 or something.

That would sure make our lives easier.  We (as in, the officiating community) seem to miss these a lot.

Nah, legal trick plays are fun. What is missing from the rules is something to the effect that it is unsportsmanlike conduct to deceive the opponent that the snap is not imminent.

[rickbridge]

MWA is right.  As we all know MA uses NCAA rules in high school football.  This is a deception play and not in the spirit of fair play.  The play should have been shut down as soon as it was recognized as an illegal act.  Some trick plays are legal during live play, but this type of deception was pre-snap. The QBs action was an intentional act to distract the defense. You can see that he was holding his hand up near his head like he was asking for a play from the sideline. Team A should have been penalized 15yds for the UNS and re-try from the 18 yd. line.

[Sumstine]

a similar play was in a  memo from November 13, 2009 from  RR.  It seems like this in not considered a "football act."

Second and 10 at the A-45. Quarterback A12 is in a “shotgun” formation. All players are stopped for a full second when A12 turns (no false start) and begins to trot toward his sideline in apparent confusion about what play is to be called or whether the coach wants to request a timeout. He is moving parallel to his end line and is almost to his sideline when the ball is snapped to A45 who is five yards behind the snapper. A45 then completes a forward pass to A12 for a long gain.

RULING: Unsportsmanlike conduct for an unfair act to deceive the opponents. The referee may impose any penalty he deems reasonable. In this case the penalty is for a live-ball foul, 15 yards at the previous spot and the down is repeated. Second and 25 at the A-30. (9-2-3-c)

A hideout play is also not a football act, it should be officially included as a UNS. I like the idea of killing it at the snap and not having to go through the act of calling back the apparent game winning score.

[NVFOA_Ump]

Not any question that this one should have been shut down and drawn a flag.  As has been noted in RR's memos and here several times in the past, any pre-snap action intended to indicate that the snap is not imminent is illegal.  In the case here, there was also direct communication (or at least simulated communication) with the sideline, so we should have had a flag at the snap.

[Rulesman]

MWA is right.  As we all know MA uses NCAA rules in high school football.  This is a deception play and not in the spirit of fair play.  The play should have been shut down as soon as it was recognized as an illegal act.  Some trick plays are legal during live play, but this type of deception was pre-snap. The QBs action was an intentional act to distract the defense. You can see that he was holding his hand up near his head like he was asking for a play from the sideline. Team A should have been penalized 15yds for the UNS and re-try from the 18 yd. line.

NCAA rules; Fed rules. It doesn't matter. The "where's the tee?" play - the "we have the wrong ball!" play - the "what's the play?" play (which is what this was)... the interpretations are the same. These plays are illegal and should be penalized.

[DallasLJ]

NCAA rules; Fed rules. It doesn't matter. The "where's the tee?" play - the "we have the wrong ball!" play - the "what's the play?" play (which is what this was)... the interpretations are the same. These plays are illegal and should be penalized.

  Exactly.  Trick them with play design post snap.  Generally, if it happens before the snap and it seems "tricky" it is likely illegal.

[Diablo]

The "where's the tee?" play - the "we have the wrong ball!" play - the "what's the play?" play (which is what this was)... the interpretations are the same. These plays are illegal and should be penalized.

These sorts of pre-snap acts are more theatre than football.  And the players are actors rather than athletes.  Coaches who teach these should switch to coaching the thespian club.

If not caught, these "one act dramas" often end up having a significant impact on the outcome of the game.  Officials need to be diligent in sniffing them out.

[Legacy Zebra]

So does a specific person get "credit" for the UNS as one of their two for the game? Or is this like a sideline interference and such?

[Kalle]

So does a specific person get "credit" for the UNS as one of their two for the game? Or is this like a sideline interference and such?

In this case (and in the RR ruling) it would be the quarterback who gets hit with the penalty. The person doing the deception fouls.

[Rulesman]

So does a specific person get "credit" for the UNS as one of their two for the game?

You bet they do! 

[Aussie-Zebra]

idiot post deleted 

[Kalle]

Just thinking here >>>> What constitutes a legal snap ?

When in doubt, read rule 2: rule 2-23.

[Aussie-Zebra]

Thanks Kalle - I was looking for the definition.

[JasonTX]

In this play the ball was illegally snapped.

Unless I am missing something, what are you seeing that makes the snap itself illegal and not the play.