Interesting Article in San Angelo Paper about officials

[TxSkyBolt]

I think that's the point DLJ, there is a definite shortage of officials now and UIL needs to get in front of the trend, not react when it's too late. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TexDoc]

Two things could help sv coverage tremendously.   1 raise rates a bit.  No sv game should ever pay less than $40 to $50 each.   2 shorten playing times.   So many schools are now passing a lot.   Some middle school games can last an hour and a half or longer.   Set a running clock or allow us to run the clock after incompletions except last two minutes of either half.   I could even live with current rates if we could cap MS games to no longer than 1 hour.   

[Coby]

Bidding for services is the wrong way to go and creates unnecessary schisms in the officiating ranks.  Who gets to decide who is a better official that the schools are willing to pay more for?   The one that make favorable calls to the team willing to pay the most?  Where are the allegiancies then?   Doesn't such a system just drive the "lesser viewed" official from the game making the shortage worse.

  How do you separate out varsity from subvarsity coverage.

  Nobody does this (or should) as their job and primary source of income -- so let's not pretend like we are like every other vendor offering services to schools.  If the price that the UIL / schools are willing to pay dips too low to attract enough officials to continue, then the UIL will have a choice to make -- (1) increase pay to increase the officiating pool, or (2) cut subvarsity programs to meet the available officiating pool.

  Just my humble opinion.

There are already plenty of schisms in officiating dont kid yourself.

I am thinking Ebay can decide who is better.  Put our services up for auction.  Both coaches have to decide on a crew.

The lesser viewed official is already getting driven from the game.

All I want is the individual schools post their rates  and let us decide which sub varsity we want to cover.  Supply and Demand.

Heaven forbid we act like other vendors just because this is secondary income.  Do police officers working extra security at games work for a discounted rate?  What about the EMTs?

The UIL will blame us first and make us look bad then they will basically do what you said I agree.

[george7244]

The crews contract the games themselves or go through an assignor. I only once or twice did not have a full schedule. We worked the 2a through the 6a games. Did not work the 7a because all the schools were too far north of us

[Welpe]

There are plenty of states where the pay is not fixed by the state. California was one such state. Every association negotiated their own rate with the schools they serviced. There are also states where the crew is hired and contracted directly by the home school at whatever price they feel like paying.

[DallasLJ]

There are plenty of states where the pay is not fixed by the state. California was one such state. Every association negotiated their own rate with the schools they serviced. There are also states where the crew is hired and contracted directly by the home school at whatever price they feel like paying.

  And what was the range of agreed pay for a regular season games?  Playoff games?

[TexDoc]

There are plenty of states where the pay is not fixed by the state. California was one such state. Every association negotiated their own rate with the schools they serviced. There are also states where the crew is hired and contracted directly by the home school at whatever price they feel like paying.

Welpe, this is really a moot point.  This will never happen in Texas. 

[Joe Stack]

Bidding for services is the wrong way to go and creates unnecessary schisms in the officiating ranks.

 

Already exists. Schools go back and forth between Dallas and Fort Worth chapters. Both seek out schools during the time TASO allows the chapters to do such a thing. I'm sure other chapters have similar issues. We work it out.

Who gets to decide who is a better official that the schools are willing to pay more for?

   

This isn't an issue. The chapter decides what it will or will not work the games (SV or V) for, and the school district agrees or doesn't agree. Everyone here is very familiar with this system because they use it in every other endeavor in their life from work to leisure.

Doesn't such a system just drive the "lesser viewed" official from the game making the shortage worse.

Explain how a market based system would do this where a fixed price system, where the prices don't rise much, doesn't.

How do you separate out varsity from subvarsity coverage.

That's between the district and the chapter. Different chapters HAVE covered school's varsity and subvarsity schedules simultaneously.

Nobody does this (or should) as their job and primary source of income -- so let's not pretend like we are like every other vendor offering services to schools.

This has nothing to do with anything. Cops work security in a part time fashion. Other vendors sell their products or services to more than just schools. Only companies like educational service companies (or consultants) and school district employees derive all or most of their income from schools. Everyone else -- and its a significant number (office supplies, contractors, electronics equipment manufacturers and sellers, etc.) -- have other sources of business or income. But for the life of me, I can't figure out what this has to do with the discussion. Few people spend significants amounts of money and time getting prepared to do their part time job (for lack of a better way of putting it). You buy your uniform and gear, pay your dues, pay for training, spend a lot of time traveling to and from games, in meetings, etc. Name one other service that involves this much time, money and effort.

If the price that the UIL / schools are willing to pay dips too low to attract enough officials to continue, then the UIL will have a choice to make -- (1) increase pay to increase the officiating pool, or (2) cut subvarsity programs to meet the available officiating pool.

Specifically when was the last time either one of these happened? While UIL did allow the travel allowance to increase before last year, 5-7 years ago, I was making $45 for JV games in one district, and 3-4 years ago, was making $50 for JV games in another district. Both were likely due to athletic secretaries paying based on historical pay rates (due to agreements with the chapter) rather than 1204. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the 30 (or 35) through 45 dollar pay rate for subvarsity is the same as it was as far back as 2007 and possibly earlier than that. Again, I don't recall because back then, school districts hadn't been clamped down on by UIL to pay the 1204 rate. Some did and some didn't. I know for a fact that school districts themselves didn't complain about paying agreed to rates with the chapter.

I can't for the life of me figure why some of you guys are willing to just sit by and let UIL tell us our business simply because they represent or set rules for our clients. Please name one other organization that does that.

[Welpe]

Welpe, this is really a moot point.  This will never happen in Texas.

Probably not. I'm just responding to false and misleading claims being made here.

[NorCalMike]

There are plenty of states where the pay is not fixed by the state. California was one such state. Every association negotiated their own rate with the schools they serviced. There are also states where the crew is hired and contracted directly by the home school at whatever price they feel like paying.

California high school sports is broken up into 10 sections with the sections contracting with an assignor to get officials for games. The amounts the sections pay per game may be different.

In section I work in these are the rates.
Varsity game 5 officials = $84.
Subvarsity 5 officials = $44
Subsarsity 4 officials = $56
Playoffs 5 officials plus an alternate = $102

Youth officials can make $200-300 a day depending on the number of games. (4-5 games in a day)

[JasonTX]

California high school sports is broken up into 10 sections with the sections contracting with an assignor to get officials for games. The amounts the sections pay per game may be different.

In section I work in these are the rates.
Varsity game 5 officials = $84.
Subvarsity 5 officials = $44
Subsarsity 4 officials = $56
Playoffs 5 officials plus an alternate = $102

Youth officials can make $200-300 a day depending on the number of games. (4-5 games in a day)

How much does the assignor get paid?
How does one become an assignor?
How does the assignor find officials?

[NorCalMike]

How much does the assignor get paid?
How does one become an assignor?
How does the assignor find officials?

Q1. I don't know.
Q2. Contracting process through the section.
Q3. Well, the official belong to an association that provides a list of certified officials to the assignor prior to the start of the season.

I should ask these questions to association.

[TX Zebra]

Reading this long set of posts, wondering how do we solve the issue of the shortage of officials.
It seems to me that in all of this, pay seems to be in the center of the conversation, but also there is a sense in these posts, at least to me, that the solution rests in someone else's hands.

I may be naive and old-school here, but I don't think we will like the result of the officials we attract if the motivating factor is what we get paid. I want officials that are passionate about the game and motivated to continue their involvement in football because it is ultimately just a bunch of fun to be an official doing it the right way. Pay is a nice side benefit, but not the point of officiating.

So, where I am going - are we doing enough as individuals to recruit others to our avocation and/or help out in retaining our young officials once they come into the chapter through the rookie programs? I think about what has kept me in the game for 30+ years and it isn't pay - it is the camaraderie, the feeling of being part of the game and sense of accomplishment for a game well officiated, personally and ultimately as a crew.

So, I don't know the solution, but I think it rests more into the chapters and ultimately individuals to set an environment for new/young officials to thrive and advance. For the veterans to give back by contributing talents/efforts into the recruiting, training and mentoring - and stress on the latter to be able to retain more of our younger officials. Maybe a sacrifice in a veteran's time to mentor or give up a few "quality" games to leave space for a younger official to sub into an established crew to see what he has on a bigger stage (and hopefully surrounded by veterans that are supportive). What I think may be more motivating than pay for a starting official to get out to work SV games would be to know that he will be working with a mentor that is truly looking out for him and working for his improvement. These are a few probably poorly articulated, and probably equally naively conceived ideas.

Sorry for the long post, my 2 cents... 

[Etref]

Reading this long set of posts, wondering how do we solve the issue of the shortage of officials.
It seems to me that in all of this, pay seems to be in the center of the conversation, but also there is a sense in these posts, at least to me, that the solution rests in someone else's hands.

I may be naive and old-school here, but I don't think we will like the result of the officials we attract if the motivating factor is what we get paid. I want officials that are passionate about the game and motivated to continue their involvement in football because it is ultimately just a bunch of fun to be an official doing it the right way. Pay is a nice side benefit, but not the point of officiating.

So, where I am going - are we doing enough as individuals to recruit others to our avocation and/or help out in retaining our young officials once they come into the chapter through the rookie programs? I think about what has kept me in the game for 30+ years and it isn't pay - it is the camaraderie, the feeling of being part of the game and sense of accomplishment for a game well officiated, personally and ultimately as a crew.

So, I don't know the solution, but I think it rests more into the chapters and ultimately individuals to set an environment for new/young officials to thrive and advance. For the veterans to give back by contributing talents/efforts into the recruiting, training and mentoring - and stress on the latter to be able to retain more of our younger officials. Maybe a sacrifice in a veteran's time to mentor or give up a few "quality" games to leave space for a younger official to sub into an established crew to see what he has on a bigger stage (and hopefully surrounded by veterans that are supportive). What I think may be more motivating than pay for a starting official to get out to work SV games would be to know that he will be working with a mentor that is truly looking out for him and working for his improvement. These are a few probably poorly articulated, and probably equally naively conceived ideas.

Sorry for the long post, my 2 cents... 

 

[Coby]

Reading this long set of posts, wondering how do we solve the issue of the shortage of officials.
It seems to me that in all of this, pay seems to be in the center of the conversation, but also there is a sense in these posts, at least to me, that the solution rests in someone else's hands.

I may be naive and old-school here, but I don't think we will like the result of the officials we attract if the motivating factor is what we get paid. I want officials that are passionate about the game and motivated to continue their involvement in football because it is ultimately just a bunch of fun to be an official doing it the right way. Pay is a nice side benefit, but not the point of officiating.

So, where I am going - are we doing enough as individuals to recruit others to our avocation and/or help out in retaining our young officials once they come into the chapter through the rookie programs? I think about what has kept me in the game for 30+ years and it isn't pay - it is the camaraderie, the feeling of being part of the game and sense of accomplishment for a game well officiated, personally and ultimately as a crew.

So, I don't know the solution, but I think it rests more into the chapters and ultimately individuals to set an environment for new/young officials to thrive and advance. For the veterans to give back by contributing talents/efforts into the recruiting, training and mentoring - and stress on the latter to be able to retain more of our younger officials. Maybe a sacrifice in a veteran's time to mentor or give up a few "quality" games to leave space for a younger official to sub into an established crew to see what he has on a bigger stage (and hopefully surrounded by veterans that are supportive). What I think may be more motivating than pay for a starting official to get out to work SV games would be to know that he will be working with a mentor that is truly looking out for him and working for his improvement. These are a few probably poorly articulated, and probably equally naively conceived ideas.

Sorry for the long post, my 2 cents...

I understand for the most part where you are coming from and agree with a lot of it.  How do you get the right people involved with officiating?  Like I have said before there is only so much disposable time in a day.  Work has 8-10 hours a day, family has 5-6 hours a day, sleep has 7-9 hours a day.  What do you give up to be able to start officiating.  If you are lucky you have 10-15 hours of me time every week.  Officiating now has to compete with:    golf, fishing, lions club, bbq cook off team, honey do lists, happy hour, church, poker night, volunteer fire fighter, etc etc.  Cutting out time away from these events is sometimes just as hard as cutting away from your job and family.

Money comes into play more towards the principle of the situation.  This is AMERICA we believe in free economics.  So why is it that the only thing that is controlled with regards to HS Football is officials pay?  UIL does not set ticket cost, coaches stipends, security guard pay, etc etc.  Why are we getting screwed?

I am sorry but I am skilled labor when you get down to the brass tax of it.  Does an apprentice electrician get paid as much as a master electrician?  Is there a difference in quality between a pair of shoes made by an apprentice cobbler and one made by a master cobbler (sorry I have always wanted to be a cobbler).

If school district X wants to pay more for higher quality officials then they should be allowed.  The Money matter is now a matter of principle.

[centexsports]

Remember that the average age of officials is now over 50 and we are trying to recruit people in their 20's.   So much has changed:  The Golden Rule of our time has changed to the Platinum Rule (Treat others the way THEY want to be treated!).   We were taught to work hard to accomplish our goals and as such, we understood that it was a process to get from point a to point b in our career.   Today's young people want instant gratification.   There is nothing wrong with their expectations but it is difficult for us old guys to accept. 

I believe that the only way to get them into the program is with money and the other part (loving the game and camaraderie) will come as they experience it.   It is a difficult problem to deal with but if something isn't done soon it will only get worse,

[goodgrr]

I think we are perhaps missing something here.  I suspect most officials are/were married. 

I know from my point of view, I would and do do it for the love of the game, however I also know the time I spend is a lot easier to "clear" at home if the remuneration is reasonable.

[NorCalMike]

I think we are perhaps missing something here.  I suspect most officials are/were married. 

I know from my point of view, I would and do do it for the love of the game, however I also know the time I spend is a lot easier to "clear" at home if the remuneration is reasonable.

Since my wife figured out RefPay I never see my money anymore.

[TexDoc]

Since my wife figured out RefPay I never see my money anymore.

You and me both!

[mobetta285]

Since my wife figured out RefPay I never see my money anymore.

My wife sits at the mailbox and berates the mailman to hurry up and put the checks in!!! It's so embarrassing. 

[Timmultisport]

Can't speak for others, but a real problem for me is traffic. I cannot take some mid week games knowing I cannot get there in time. We get assigned so I cannot go into the system and pick games I know I can get to. Where else can you have a hobby that delivers cash and exercise? Fans don't bother me because I am 50% deaf and 50% I don't listen. Increase in fees would be nice, but there are still places I can't get to in time. Having said that football needs to get with the others sports.When you can make more doing other sports or even sub varsity football, it is no wonder there were many occasions this season where a crew needed a fill in. In 5 years in Houston TASO there were more requests for help this year than in the other 4 years combined. I heard stories of 45-55$ check for on field officials when the clock guys got 60$. I am biased, but grumbling is legit!

[Legacy Zebra]

I heard stories of 45-55$ check for on field officials when the clock guys got 60$.

You may have heard stories, but this is an every week occurrence out here in West Texas. Of the 16 varsity games I called this year, only one of them was more than $60 before mileage/meal fee. And we don't even get "official" clock operators/chain crews.   

[TexDoc]

You may have heard stories, but this is an every week occurrence out here in West Texas. Of the 16 varsity games I called this year, only one of them was more than $60 before mileage/meal fee. And we don't even get "official" clock operators/chain crews.

That has to change!  No wonder you guys are struggling to fill games.  Who want that kind of pay for those kind of hours.  It is hard to convince the wife you will be gone for 10 hours to make $60 or less going to somewhere like Presidio.